Posted by
crj
20 yrs ago
Hi
our 6 week old is a pretty good night sleeper on most nights so far.
6:30 pm breastfeed, bath, massage.
After massage he is swaddled and I offer him the breast again... just to be sure he has enough to sleep!
7:30 pm or before in bed
11:00 pm breastfeed
3:30ish am he wakes up for another breastfeed
6:30 am Breaskfast!
BUT
In the daytime, although we are feeding on a schedule his sleeping is not consistent.
I am keeping a chart to track when he is napping and when he is awake and/or crying.
We try to do the Sleep - Feed - Awake - Sleep etc... pattern.
We feed:
6:30 am, 9:30 am, 12:30 pm, 3:30 pm, 6:30 pm
This is not a schedule from a book, it was made with what he was doing naturally and I just structured it (but it is flexible, ie 15 minutes before or after). He almost always wakes up for his feeds on his own, usually a few minutes before and if not I wake him.
The first month, he slept all the time! Basiclly after a feed we would change the nappy and put him down to sleep until the next feed.
BUT now he is awake and alert more and more in the daytime, but I can't 'find' a pattern...
Example: for two days he is awake between the 3:30 and 6:30 feeds, but then the next day he is out cold at that time!
Can anyone share with me when your young babies sleep in the day?
When did you see a pattern emerge?
How do you get it to be consistent?
Thanks
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crj
20 yrs ago
Hi Cara - thanks for the reply.
I am not worried anything is wrong - I am struggling with the fact that I need to structure my day... and I would like to work with my baby's schedule.
Feeding on a schedule is great, and if I can establish a daytime nap routine it would be really helpful.
The problem is, I am not very good at 'reading his signs' so when he is tired, I try to put him down, sometimes he sleeps, other times he cries.
So I am wondering, how often do/did your baby nap at this age? And at what times?
Any tips to establishing a daytime nap routine?
ALSO
WHAT DO I DO WHEN HE IS AWAKE?
How can he be awake, happy, not overstimulated, not bored, and not crying?
He likes being on his tummy for about 15-20 minutes.
He likes being in his swing or chair for 15-45 minutes (even if it is off, it is just a different view of the room).
He loves it when I hold him most of the time, but sometimes he still cries even when I am holding him.
When I am sitting on the sofa, I just plop him next to me and he is quite content most of the time, although sometimes he will cry anyway.
He does not like the baby play gym mat thing yet - as he doesn't really look at things or reach for things yet, so that is not an option.
But sometimes I need to nap or need to do things and I can only put him in his bassinet/crib.
Any ideas on what to 'do' with a 2 month old baby or how to get them to 'entertain' themselves? Let me rephrase that - where to put or what to do with a 2 month old when he is awake to not have him cry?
*phew*... just a few questions...
Thanks
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Hi Crj -
There is a book called "Baby Games" by Linda Acredolo - they offer some really good suggestions. 2 months is still pretty young, but they have some good ideas for your child as they get older- namely these cause and effect games. You can tie a ribbon to your infants leg and then in turn tie it to a mobile or play gym -and then they figure out how to move it. If they kick - the mobile moves - they have some other suggestions in the book - divided by different ages...
I liked singing songs to Emily, reading books (she was especially entertained by this "Where's spot book which had some peekaboo pictures in it - available at dymocks) and this Counting Kisses book by Karen Katz -
Here is this webpage that has free infant stimulation pictures- Emily really liked them at around 2 months - she would stare at the pictures - and I could lay her down on the sofa, tape them to a pillow and she would look at them for a while, and then I would switch the pictures. http://www.envisagedesign.com/ohbaby/infstim/graphics.html
your voice is really powerful - so even reading to him in a low voice, your voice, is wonderful. There is some research which suggests that kids who are exposed to "Dr. Seuss" type rhymes from a younger age make the reading jump in phonics more easily (due to the early exposure to rhymes) Some good titles include The Foot Book, Mr. Brown Can moo and others...i'm a huge fan of reading books to my child - it seems silly -can they really understand, what are they doing? Do they like it? But, i'm convinced that they do gain something out of it - even if it is to only hear your voice.
I agree a routine is hugely helpful if you work - but two months is still a bit early. I worked on Emily's routine really diligently from when she was about a month old but her pattern didn't definitively settle until she was about 3 months old - so give it time. Try and do the same things at the same time every day - and see how it goes...
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crj
20 yrs ago
Thank you so much HKCC...
Books
I am currently reading a gory murder mystery... 'brainless reading'... and read to him from it the other day... then I read from the Economist yesterday... maybe Dr Seuss is a better idea!
He doesn't 'look' at things yet... so I have some really nice soft books that were given as gifts, but he isn't interested. Once he starts looking around I can use those.
That Baby Games book sounds great - I'll look for that. I really need a 'idiots guide to what to do with babies!'
Images
The weblink of printouts is great - thanks.
Approx how long would Emily look at one picture?
singing
I won't sing to my baby and curse him with my terrible voice - leaving this to my husband who has a wonderful voice!!
Maybe one song from a baby CD every day....
Schedule
I know you are big on schedules too, so it is interesting that Emily did not settle until 3 months... gives me a target!
My big concern is I am going back to work soon - so I want to establish a routine with activities and then teach my helper how to do this - so baby is stimulated, learning but not over stimulated (therefore the schedule). So I need to find ways for him to entertain himself and things that helper can do.
I am not teaching my helper how to use our TV or DVD (it is quite complicated and she is a techniphobe) as I don't want her getting into the bad habbit of plopping him down in front of a DVD every day.
Thanks!
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CRJ -
hmmm...how long did Emily look at a picture? Sometimes a minute - sometimes longer - I called it her "study time" as there is some link to early infant stimulation with black and white pictures...at six weeks - he might not see it "clearly" but the contrast between black and white IS visible to him - so he can find it interesting to look at...try one picture and see how he reacts to it - i've already got my 11 day old - in an attempt to keep her awake for a few minutes during the day looking at it - and i've caught her looking it for a few minutes at a time.
Emily's schedule wavered a bit in the second month - but by month three, everything was pretty much firmly established. I did have some minor blips with her morning nap - as I made the mistake of putting her to sleep in a "vibrating" chair instead of on her own in a crib - so I had to break that habit - but yes - by three months - everything was good.
I think at your baby's age - if he is overstimulated - more likely he'll just shut down and pass out - HAHAHAH. and i'm sure your voice isn't horrible - sing anyways - your baby will love it - it's more about spending time with you.
Oh - I remembered one more thing from that baby games book - something that you CAN do with your child - you make these exaggerated faces at him and see if he can imitate you - they claim that babies will make "rough" imitations of you - I noticed that if i made my mouth into an exaggerated O = Emily could do it too - coincidence? I don't know.
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crj
20 yrs ago
I keep reading that our baby should be looking at our faces... but he doesn't do this much at all. He sits in my lap and looks to someplace over my shoulder... He also does not seem to respond to my voice or 'follow my finger' in front of his face... although the past few days if he is with someone else and I speak he will make a sound or move about a bit like he recognises that is mummy's voice. But when he is on my lap and I talk to him he rarely looks at me. Maybe my expectations are too high or maybe he is a bit slow at this stage of development, I keep thinking that maybe next week he will be more responsive.
But when he does look at me, I make faces to see if he will copy - I have great pictures of him with his father and his grandfather 'copying' their facial expressions (or so it looks like).
HKCC - good to know Emily only looked for a minute or so, that is about his attention span!
I guess I am wishing for the daytime sleep schedule too fast... looking forward to month three, and very grateful the daytime feeding and nightime sleeping pattern is established thus far :)
JoshMomm - I am learning slowly... so far I have just been talking and telling him what we are doing - like 'okay now we're going to put your onesie on... over your head, and now your arm...'
But my mother was here and she was saying... 'look at the dinasour on your outfit - this one is a tyranasourus rex, and this one is a .... etc...'
She carried him around the flat and said 'look at all the books, one day you'll read these... and see these photos of your auntie...'
It didn't even occur to me to say anything like that! I was just 'narrating' what was going on, saying things like 'time to change your nappy' or 'time to be awake, yes this is awake time'.
We have something like what you described (might be the same one), and your suggestion is great - it is so simple, but I had no idea what to do except leave it there and say 'look at this'!
Great tip on the online library catalogue - thanks! Do you go to the Central library or the new one in CWB?
Thanks again, and yes, I am having fun :)
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YAWNN!!
am tired - it is BABY MINDS. Sorry - I've lost my mind dealing with my baby who has yet to sleep normally at night - LOVES to sleep during the day and not much at night...
You're doing fine CRJ - don't put too much pressure on yourself - experiment - see what your baby likes. But books are good - and soon they'll develop into your child's favorites in the future...
as for focusing on faces - make sure you're close enough - on your lap - it should be about the distance from your breast to you - if he's lying on your lap, it still may be too far away for him to focus on your face...
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nes
20 yrs ago
In my experience, a 2 month old cant stay up for much more than an hour with out being cranky..........of course every baby is different but I always remember what the midwifes in sydney told me with my first. If a baby is crying and it has been fed and has a clean nappy the only other thing it needs is sleep. My now 5 month old is the same as his two older siblings, and when he starts to fuss (after being fed and changed) I pop him in bed and he sleeps, usually after being awake around 2 hours. I don't mean to over-simplify things but 2 months is still very young and just because your baby doesn't fall asleep as easily as in the first month (when they seem to be in a constant sleepy state) doesn't mean he isn't tired. Once your baby is around 3 or 4 months, you will start to notice around 3 fairly regular sleeps....morning, after lunch and a nap in the afternoon, then you will start to feel like you have a bit of a routine to your day! All the best
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I did loads of sleep reading in the early days...as hkchoichoi noted with Emily, 3 mo is when most babies daytime sleep becomes more organized.
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cjr-any ideas how much time should a baby after 6 weeks to be woken up in between sleep for her feeds?i noticed yours sometimes can last up to 3 and half hrs to 4 hours.
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crj
20 yrs ago
HKCC, JoshMom, Ness, My Thoughts - thank you...
Based on your comments above and some experimenting yesterday, I have the following list which I shared with my helper and husband.
Also - you were so right about looking at my face - once I got him closer it worked! And he does like the B&W pictures HKCC gives the link to above! We are starting with one 'soft' book that is quite bright - we'll see how it goes.
The list I shared with my helper:
AWAKE-ACTIVITY TIME
Months 2-3
Tummy Time, Face Watching, Reading, Black and White Pictures, Talking
Sitting on the Sofa, and having him on the fleece blanket on his stomach.
He can be in your arms, looking at your face – you can smile and make faces at him and see if he copies you.
He can sit in your lap or next to you and you can read a book to him
He can look at the black and white stimulation pictures – about one minute
Have him sit in the swing, but only if is he AWAKE, never if he is alseep.
From the swing, he can look around the room and be quite entertained by what he sees.
Have him sit in the small chair and relax looking around the room.
Hold him and walk around the flat talking to him about what you see – the books, the photos, go on the balcony and show him the plants.
It is very important not to over stimulate him by doing too much. He has a very small brain and everything is new to him. So for awake time it is perfectly fine if he is just sitting there and relaxing, looking around.
If you are reading to him or showing him a picture, when he starts to look away this is a sign he has had enough – it might only be a few minutes, but that’s okay.
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crj
20 yrs ago
Ellie->
We are on a pretty good feeding schedule that works for my baby, but every baby is different.
The schedule will change every few weeks as he grows and develops.
The main principle of the schedule is a Sleep – Feed – Awake pattern.
We feed at regular times:
6:30, 9:30, 12:30, 3:30, 6:30 (then bath, massage, bedtime), and last one 11:00pm
Then he wakes up once, around 3:30ish am.
Actually, we feed within 15 minutes before or after the times listed - it is quite flexible.
In the ideal world: After the feed he is awake for a while, then he sleeps until the next feed. We are still working on getting the sleep times more organised (hence the first post in this thread)!
I don't wake him up at any other times except the scheduled times above.
But I think next week I will be gradually extending the schedule to a 3.5 hour cycle.
6:30, 10:00, 1:30, 5:00, 7:00 (then bath, massage, bedtime), 11:00pm
In a month or so, we hope he drops the 3:30am feed on his own, but we are not forcing him to do it - it is up to him!
BUT saying that, every parent and every baby is different - what works for us, might not work for you. I based this schedule on what he was doing naturally, and just structured it for my own sanity - and it works well for us. While I can't predict when he will sleep and be awake yet, I can predict when he will feed!
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I am so glad this thread was started. I am keen to know cri at what age your bubs stopped being so sleepy during the day. Mine is only 3weeks old so obviously getting into a pattern is a lot harder but she feeds for about 30mins, then promptly goes to sleep for 45min to and hour during the day from about 7.30-8am till 7pm! I really struggle to keep her awake for even 30mins. I am BF and she has a Bottle feed around 10-11pm. I was doing another bottle at about 3-4am but my breast were so full i stopped as i was up expressing for 30mins at 4 in the morning!
I read the GF book and which i like to a certain degree but who your suppose to get a two week old baby to stay awake to follow her schedule i'd love to know. Cri sounds like your dong really well and i hope by two monthas i'm as organised as you!
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Perthites -
i'm Gina Ford's biggest fan - even thinking of starting a fan club for her - but my daughter, now almost 2 weeks can't follow her schedule for even an hour...I sort of try to keep her awake - but she doesn't really obey - the only thing I'm trying to do is extend diaper changes in the night (if she's only wet, let her sit in her wet diaper - only change the poopy ones) and swaddling her for her night time sleep, and if she's sleeping during the day - not swaddle her and keep her in the light more...so her sleep wont' be as deep (I hope.)
Gina ford takes time - even at 1 month, I really struggled for a while before Emily was getting settled into the day routine - so don't beat yourself up about it yet...
CRJ - sounds like you're ready to attack the world - I'm glad baby likes the stim pictures and was able to respond to your face - HAHAHAH -
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crj
20 yrs ago
Perthites->
I was told the first 2-3 weeks babies have their days and nights reversed, then they sort them out - so it does get a lot better. Day and Night was the first thing our baby 'learned'.
Also, the 3:30 am feed is really good for your milk supply. I plan on keeping mine until he doesn't need it anymore (hopefully 10-14 weeks?)
Schedules...
I am a schedule fan, although not gina ford or anyone specific. I read BabyWise, Gina Ford and Baby Whisperer and just took what I liked and made my own schedule that worked for us. (we don't use blackout curtains or schedule as stricly as GF, etc...) But I think the end results are the same.
I feel I need to be on a schedule so I can plan my days and life - and when I go back to work my helper can follow the schedule too, so baby has consistency and routine.
The first 2-3 weeks I fed on demand kept a chart when baby ate and for how long. this helped me design a schedule that worked for him.
I only had 4 goals the first 2-3 weeks:
1. full feeds when possible (it never was, he was jaundiced and always sleepy)
2. try to feed - awake - then sleep (during this time 'awake' meant nappy change)
3. put baby in bassinette when he is awake and have him fall asleep.
4. separate day and night - day the curtains are open and room is light, night the curtains are closed, room is dark and we speak in low whispers and no stimulation.
Then magically... on day 13 he ate every 2 hours and 45 minutes... on his own, without prompting. So I turned this into his schedule... and after that I tried to feed at those times for the next two days, but still let him 'lead'.
Then on day 16 I implemented a 2:45 schedule - and wow did I struggle, but it was worth it and he got much better.
At first, he could never eat for 20 minutes - so for me if a feed started at 9:00, he might eat 5 minutes, then rest, then 2, then 3, etc... and I would let him do this between 9-10 - so he had one hour to get 20 minutes. I called this my '20 minute hour'.
As his eating got better around 1 month old, it naturally became what he could eat in 30 minutes, but sometimes still it took 45 minutes or one hour.
Once he started being asleep past the 'start' time of the feeds regularly, I increased the schedule to every 3 hours.
I have an informal 3 day rule - if he does it for 3 days in a row, it should be part of the schedule! - this is how we dropped the 9:30 pm feed - he slept through it for 3 days and after that I stopped waking him up for it.
During the first 5-6 weeks, all that was included in 'awake time' was feeding, nappy changing and getting dressed. That's it!
Then at 6 weeks - he started to be awake.
That is why I started this thread - because all of the sudden he was awake and I had no idea what to do!
(I need an idiot guide to parenting - what to do with baby each month - just a few bullet points will do!)
He is still not awake and sleep on a daytime schedule yet - but getting better.
But it is never schedule perfect - for example, before I typed this message he ate 8 + 12 minutes, I thought he was done. Then 20 minutes later he was genuinely hungry and he ate at the breast for another 20 minutes non-stop! This is unheard of for him (40 minutes in one hour!), I am thinking he might be on a 'growth spurt' which I have heard can happen sometime week 6-8 and cause a '45 minute intruder' where for 2-3 days, 45 minutes after a feed baby wakes up genuinely hungry.
HKCC -> your advice helps loads!!
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crj
20 yrs ago
MumyBee - just saw your post - we must have been typing at the same time!
I guess the most important thing is the nighttime sleeping and daytime feed schedule, and I was pushing the nap schedule too soon... something to look forward too!
Your 'play' ideas are great for the next stage of development (I can add them to my 'guide' for 3-4 months)... our baby boy still is not interested in mirrors, toys or rattles yet... maybe next week?
He does love tummy time though, lifting his head, doing mini press ups and what we jokingly call 'crawling' when he practially propels himself across whatever surface we put him on... it is really amazing!
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TC1
20 yrs ago
I have been struggling to give my little one a schedule in the last 6 months. She is now 6.5 months old & she finally has a day time nap schedule. I thought she would never has a routine. It's very difficult. Luckily, she has 2 naps a day at around the same time everyday. I put her down at 6:30pm & she usually wakes up at 7:00am the next day. However, she still wakes up in the middle of the night asking for food sometimes. Not every nite though. Still have to work on that part. Just don't know how can she sleep 12 hours straight like other babies.
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Cri thanks for your good advice i now keep the curtins open during the day and keep the night light off at night. HKCC thanks for your advice as well i really appericate it. This morning she went to 30min naps arrrh. I do have trouble though if i wake her as she is just so sleepy, i have always used a nappy change to help keep her awake during feeds and in the morning i change her clothes but after that she justs wants to sleep again. R u saying that if i just keep waking her up at a particular time she will just get use to it and in the end stay awake? And when you implemeanted your schedule feeds did you just let your baby cry until you the time you wanted to feed? Mine only usually crys if she wants feeding i'm not sure i could let her cry for too long for a preset schedule feeing time.
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Babies will do everything according to their own shedule I am afraid and it will change all the time. This is the most difficult thing to comes to terms with as a parent - you cannot control everything anymore!
After 4 babies (now teenagers) my rules were - never wake a baby unless absolutely necessary - not even for feeding to accomodate a schedule.
When they were very young (before 2 months) - they would be fed, changed, burped or cuddled whatever and put back into bed where they would go back to sleep until they next woke up. Night and day. Babies need sleep, and they will only tolerate being awake for about 45 minutes at a time. This is a time of rapid growth, and they can only do it when they are sleeping. (Like teenagers).
For entertainment, I would put them into a bouncy bed where they could see me and the other kids playing, or prop them up on pillows on the floor (with pillows all around them) so they were on an incline and could see and hear everything going on. Or in the pram so I could push them around the house as I did the housework. (And I could see them) as they got older I put one of those playthings over the top of them, but once you have more than one baby in the house, the older ones tend to entertain the babies anyway.
No night lights, and if you want to stop feeding at night, don't offer food - offer water. They will figure out that it is not worth waking up for.(although you may find the first few nights emotionally difficult as they scream for what they have always got)
Always put them to bed at night at the same time if possible when they are babies - otherwise you will be struggling later on when they are toddlers and YOU need them to be in bed.
TC1 - don't fret - some babies don't sleep through the night until they are close to 2! And once they can get out of their cot and walk they find you in the middle of the night!
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New mums trying to help your baby settle into a good sleep pattern...........Babies love routine and after the first month or so if you don't see a pattern emerging re; sleep and feeds, help your baby into a pattern and usually after about 4 days of doing the same thing (keep a chart)you will see that he/she tends to automatically fit in to the pattern. Stick with it! Day naps can often be a problem even when your baby is sleeping well at night, put your baby into the crib at the same time each day - consistency is the key!- (have the room a bit lighter than at night so your baby is able to differenciate between night and day)and make sure you put baby down before he/she gets overtired as by this stage the baby is already 'stressed' and will take longer to settle. Put your baby in the crib awake (even slightly, as it is important your baby notices where he/she falls asleep), keep doing the same thing (some days your baby will sleep less or more than others) but keeping the time you put baby down for naps at roughly the same each day will gradually encourage your baby to settle at these times. Be sure to finish the last nap of the day before 3.30/4pm to allow your baby to be tired enough for the night sleep. Here's to a peaceful baby and a rested mum!
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crj
20 yrs ago
Deborah
Thank you for your posting, a few questions.
How many days should I let him cry when I put the 4 month old baby to nap at the same time?
In the perfect world, we want our baby to nap before each feed: 9-10, 12-1:30, 4-5.
We feed at 5, then play, bath, massage and fed at 7 before bedtime - the reason we want the nap before 5 is because he gets overtired by 7 if he does not have an afternoon nap and then can't enjoy his massage so much. He is an excellent night time sleeper.
But instead he often does:
8:30-9, and then totally random the rest of the day, I keep a chart and can't find a pattern - about once a week he manages a 2 hour nap, but most days he will spend most of the hour crying.... we know he is tired, but he just is not a good napper.
How can we teach him???
We feed at very consistent times, and try to have him nap at consistent times.
Should we just continue to put him to bed at those times and let him cry? After how many days should we expect success or give up?
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Hi Deborah,
Yes, any advice will be good as I face the same issues as Crj (my baby is exactly 8 weeks today).
People like my mom and granny keep saying it doesn't matter how much they sleep in the day as long as they sleep in the night! While I aagree that he's been pretty good (max. 2 wakings in the night, if not just one), I observe that he's much happier in the day if he has a solid nap at some point. But no matter how hard I try, the best I can achieve are power naps lasting not more than 45 minutes. And there is zero pattern to it - happens when it happens!!
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Hey CRJ -
just from my experience- trying to get your baby to nap at the same time can be hard - but the nap times you outline above are very similar to Gina Ford's and from my experience work well. For Emily, I had to teach her to sleep at those times, and she would cry a lot - but eventually would settle.
For Isabella, I was smarter and started her sleeping at those times earlier. Have you tried the tapping method? You dont' have to leave your munchkin alone initially, but give them a chance to get used to sleeping at those times - so tapping them to sleep is what i've tried. also, since you're teaching them, i'd give some leeway into the nap - so if you want them to nap at 9:00 - try settling him 20 minutes prior - starting at 8:40, darkened room, quiet music, maybe some rocking, to get him primed and then lay him down and tap him. Again, for the noon nap - since he's not used to it, he may need some time to get into it.
hope that helps...
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not sure if crj has experienced something similar..Settling the baby earlier before the nap time is something I have tried and failed at! He doesn't cry when I try to make him nap, just stares at me widely, doze off gradually and when I think the coast is clear and leave the room, I hear him waking up in about 20 minutes. Sometimes I spend almost 1 hour just making him sleep on his own for 20 minutes. Am I a failure or what??!!!
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Wheelymate -
most sleep experts say that the conditions your baby falls asleep in should be the one he wakes up in and then he'll go back to sleep. If he's falling asleep in your arms, and then you put him down, he'll wake up if he finds you gone. But then again, your baby is VERY young still - I definitely think that daytime sleep patterns don't get settled until closer to 3 months. My second daughter has been easier than my first in terms of her nap schedule, and is pretty set in her nap schedule right now. (she's now 12 weeks.)
But keep trying. it sounds as if maybe he is over stimulated when you try putting him down. (supposedly staring into the eyes of the parent he/she loves is very stimulating.) Darkened room, hold, rock, don't look at him, and then lay him in his crib and tap him - unless you've already tried this.
8 weeks is pretty early though to be expecting something really set and standard.
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Many thanks for all the advice.
Hkchoichoi: the darkened room, hold, rock, no eye contact routine works for his bedtime but just not in the day!
But Yes, I know 8 weeks is still early to expect too much. As a first time mom, I do find myself with very high expectations about my baby, especially when I hear stories of how people have babies who at 6 weeks know how to settle themselves for naps. My mom has remarked that I run the house like a military camp, so maybe I should relax and just keep trying - after all, my baby has only been in this world for a mere 8 weeks!!
cheers everyone and have a good weekend!!
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crj
20 yrs ago
HKCC - thanks for the advice, I will keep trying.
Wheelymate - we sound very similar!
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Crj: Yep, we sound like we are in the same boat. We'll just have to keep trying, it's just a relief to know my baby is not unique in terms of his sleep patterns.
Do share your tips with me when you finally make a breakthrough!!!
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