Moving to HK from New York with 2 under 2

We are going for our "look see" trip next week and do not know where we should live. We have two boys under two years old, and I am an active mom spoiled by having all my daily necessities met within a few blocks from where I live. I know no one in Hong Kong, so proximity as a mother, wife and starting a new life outside of these responsibilities is important to me. Any suggestions on any/all of this? Much appreciated!

Do you have a housing budget in mind?

I believe we will have around $10-15k US.

Hi Kooni -


WELCOME TO HK!!! Some people say the lifestyle is very similar to that of NYC - so you may find yourself very readily adapting...


There are sort of two ways to think about where you want to life - if you want to live close to the "center" or "Central" then Midlevels is quite ideal. This means you will never be more than a 10 minute cab ride (no traffic) to get to most places. This includes activities (gymboree, My Gym, KindermusiK) for your kids as well as restaurants and shopping. There are plenty of nice buildings in the area - and some have excellent excellent children's play rooms and facilities like swimming pools.


Some people find the pollution and congestion quite disheartening near central and midlevels so they choose to move towards the "south side" which includes Repulse Bay, Wong Nai Chung Gap Road, Tai Tam and others. This would put you a bit further from places - and mean a longer cab ride to get to activities, but you would be closer to the beach and other more "nature" things....


Finally -there is the Peak - which is sort of smack in- between both - Peak is nice, but I personally found the humidity there really stifling and the amount of energy spent to run dehumidifiers so that there wasn't mold growing everywhere wasn't that great either...but some people love the view, love the air and love the access to the peak.


Good luck - there's a bit of something for everyone everywhere..


Incidentally - if you're planning on staying for the longer haul (e.g. your boys are in school) proximity to a decent school may also weigh in your decision. The more famous international school HKIS is based on south side - so living on the south side may make more sense...There are also ESF schools on the South side as well as in midlevels.


Confusing isn't it?

That is such helpful information. Thank you. It seems like I would personally enjoy the South Side much more but might it be isolating for me? I think it will be important for me to meet people, especially in the beginning. Also, my oldest is now 21 months old. Here, he would begin nursery school in the Fall of '07. When would he begin there? This would also influence where we live. Ideally, I would love for him to learn mandarin as well as study English, but I am not sure this is possible. Any further thoughts? You have been so helpful.

don't worry about not meeting people on the southside - it's not the case at all. Most people become friendly with people in their buildings, find playgroups, and meet moms at different nursery schools. HK Island is pretty small - so even being on the "south side" is really only a 20 minute cab ride to where you need to go. So if the idea of a beautiful ocean view, less pollution, and proximity to parks and beaches is more appealing - don't hesitate. There are lots of great buildings on the south side where you can meet lots of folks as well.


As for schooling - HK is pretty competitive in terms of expats and their kids - and there isn't much room. Most people choose to send their kids to some sort of preschool from about 30-36 months. (your son could start soon.) There are a number of mandarin and English based one - the one that comes to mind - my friend's daughter attends and loves it is called Suhzhe - (I'm not sure about the spelling) and it would be possible for your son to attend now (although I'm not positive.) You might want to put up another post regarding schooling - you'll get a huge range of expertise on it - and lots of different experiences. Incidentally if your husband's package is not fully negotiated yet, you may also ask for schooling for you kids as it does get quite pricey here.


If you read through some of the old posts - there are a ton on the different montessori schools, peak preschool, the entry level for kindergarten at FIS (french International), GSIS (German Suisse International) and CIS (Chinese Internationl.)


I wish I could be more help - I remember my move to HK from San Francisco - and I knew nothing!! Keep an open mind - HK is a great city with lots of opportunity to learn new things and experience lots of different cultures.

Your expertise is very helpful. I cannot thank you enough. I will definitely put up another post regarding schooling, as it is probably the most important activity outside of our home, aside from my husband's work. I will ask that he include schooling in his package which is to be negotiated this week. It's all so sudden! As of Friday, I was looking for a larger apartmentin New York! Thank you. Please let me know if you have any other advice/thoughts.

good thing you can negotiate schooling - it's a big plus - I wasn't sure if the package had been fully negotiated yet.


if you're still in the process of negotiating, you may consider asking for a "club" membership - the American Club has two spaces - one in central and one on the South Side. A club membership is nice in terms of getting to meet other folks, SPACE (American Club in Tai Tam has a nice pool) facilities and whatnot. A lot of people choose Aberdeen Marina Club- which has excellent restaurants and great kids play areas and pools. Having a club membership is ideal if you have a family.

I should pay you a consulting fee. That's wonderful information. Anything else? I am almost embarrassed to ask..

Dear Green,


It sounds wonderful there, and I am getting excited for the trip and move. The south side sounds perfect, so we will definitely check it out. How are you doing with schools for your daughter?

Thank you, joshmomm! I just started a new thread about this very topic. You are so kind to help me. Schooling is so important to our family that every bit of advice we get is greatly appreciated. When would your 14-month old begin? Is it common to begin so early? If you respond, should we continue on the new thread? (am new to this and do not know the proper etiquette)

If you have any concerns about healthcare and want to check out a hospital please feel free to give me a call. It is always more reasuring if you know good healthcare is on hand.


Lynne - 852-28490328

Matilda International Hospital

Hong Kong

http://www.matilda.org

Hong Kong isn't limited to HK island, there is a huge expat community out in Clearwater Bay, Sai Kung. A great place to live, wouldn't live anywhere else now, can be in Central in less than 30 mins by car, 35 mins to Stanley, TST in 20 mins. Well worth a look.

Hi kooni, and welcome to HK! The number of posts you've gotten is a nice indication of how readily you'll meet people here. From the very beginning, we've found the expat community extremely welcoming (something about everyone being transient) and now that we've been here going on six years, we have many local friends as well. And you know how it is with kids, you meet loads of people through their activities. So you'll probably love it here. Plus such interesting travel opportunities...


But back to your question, I concur with all the things said about the Southside. We've been in Midlevels Central since we arrived as it gave my husband an enviable commute, but now that we have a daughter, I would dearly love a proper garden. Our own grass, a sandpit, space to grow (even harvest) some things....but I'm a small town girl. If you're a true city girl (and my husband is a NYC guy), you may prefer the accessability of the Midlevels. If you crave some(what) cleaner air and some grass or a big terrace, the southside can offer that. I wouldn't go too far south myself though, it's a twisty curvy road and tough on anyone prone to carsickness. If you're a NYer through and through, you may not be interested in Sai Kung or Clearwater Bay...but those areas are really appealing to me.


I wanted to offer a quick comment on the schooling issue, though I know you started a separate thread on that. It's quite popular among both the local and the expat communities to try to "immerse" their kids in Mandarin or Cantonese (usually Mandarin). Some even go so far has to hire a maid/"nanny" from the Mainland. We've decided not to go that route though, and I'll share with you why (though I'll probably get an earful for it) The main reason is that I don't want our daughter in a locally structured school. There are some real criticisms of the local system, among them, the early academic pressure and the lack of emphasis on creative and independent thinking. The second reason is that I don't think we can realistically maintain it for her. We won't be here too much longer and after that....sure she'll have had some language enrichment and exposure to tones as a 3 year old, but it'd take much much more than that for Mandarin (or Cantonese) to be a meaningful second language for her. Neither of us speak it so we can't keep it "alive" in our family.


But, with the age of your oldest, it DOES make sense to consider where you might like your child to go to school and plan for that commute to be reasonable. HK International School (HKIS) is popular among both expats and local families, it has an excellent reputation and is on the American system , so if you are expecting to head back to the States the transition should be quite straightforward. Several of the other international schools, including the German Swiss International School (GSIS), the French International School (FIS) and the English School Foundation (ESF) network offer the International Baccalaureate which is a very well respected credential, but may be more of a transition for your kids on the return. Of course if your next stop is London, then that might impact your decision. Personally, when we chose a nursery school, we thought less about all of that and more about the teacher/child fit and the classroom environment. So we chose a lovely nursery and kindergarden on the Peak knowing that we'll have to choose all over again if we're still here in a couple of years time. It IS easier to get a spot for your 5 year old if he's been a student since the age of 3 though, so while that may not help you make up your mind, it is something to be aware of.


As hkchoichoi so wisely suggested, negotiating schooling and a private club membership would make a nice difference in your standard of living. The sweet expat packages seemed to all but vanish when the economy took a nosedive after SARS, but the deals are getting much richer again.


Oh, and join the American Women's Association! Don't worry, it's definately not all Americans. At the very least, the monthly magazine will remind you of all the things you could be doing if you weren't so busy with the kids!


Didn't mean to ramble on so long!

Dear my thoughts, I wish I could meet you! Your advice is extremely thoughtful and right on. I so appreciate it. You have very wise points. I will feel very lucky if all the expats I meet in Hong Kong are as generous with their advice. I hope we find a nice home next week while we are there. Once we get a little settled (we will most likely be there for 5+ years), I will try to find like-minded people like you!

Hi kooni--you are sweet. I've benefitted a lot from the generosity of others, so it's nice to be able to help someone else's transition. Good luck next week. You'll probably be amazed at the quality of the facilities (pool, fitness set-up, playground, etc.) of some of the newer complexes and your budget will give you a lot of nice options. You'll be busy, I know, but we can meet of course. Drop me a personal note (under the control panel) if you'd like to take a break from traipsing around with your broker. Besides, it looks now like we'll be in Manhattan by this time next year...


You know, I wouldn't ignore the Peak. Quite accessible, above more of the pollution, and some lovely gardens and townhouses, never mind the views. This is the foggy time of year and the Peak may well be in a cloud while you're here, but nothing a few dehumidifiers can't address. Anyway, good luck :-)

Hi Kooni - We're NY'ers and LOVE Sai Kung. We lived in the Midlevels (in the heart of things, etc.) for a while, but really it's very polluted, Manhattan can't even come close to feeling as dirty. We moved to this area recently and it's been great. It's a different life though...more car-oriented, so if you're more into trains and taxi's, you won't want to be here. If you like having your car but also being able to opt for public transport, great here too. Top priority for us was our children and we moved here to Sai Kung after they arrived. It's a quick ride to the central part of HKIsland from here...20-25minutes.


With your budget, I would consider the Peak as well; it's beautiful and though close to Central, still surrounded by trees and great views which I think give you the feeling of space and maybe even some cleaner air. HK is extremely humid, everywhere. Repulse Bay is nice...by the beaches too, and if you can get a place with some space, you might like it; if you can't, you may feel crowded. Though Manhattan/NYC is full of people, somehow you manage to feel like you have space there; in HK, it's a rare feeling.


It's wise to think of schooling first and then add the pollution factor to try to figure out your best spot. Factoring both into your decision should land you in a good place.


As for meeting people here, it's very easy. There's a large expat community with people coming and going often, with new friendships being made daily. Your children will also greatly advance your networking!


Not sure where in NY (city? suburbs?) you're from/coming from, but if you need more advice, drop a line/PM.

I wanted to thank you all for all of your thoughtful repies to my posting. We just signed a lease in a beautiful home in Repulse Bay right by the water with a beautiful view. The building has wonderful amenities as well, so I am thrilled. And, we have signed up for the Woodlands pre-school. I will work on the clubs once I get there though our name is already on some wait lists. We will be there full-time as of mid-August, so let me know if anyone wants to get together for a playdate! In August, my boys will be 2.2 years and 8 months old. Thank you all again! I am getting excited for the big move.

Hi Kooni-


glad to hear that things went so well for you in HK. I hope you're excited about settling in - don't bother stocking up on kids' clothes either - Stanley market has all the gap, gymboree clothes - and CHEAP. You'll find you wont' need much winter stuff, and summer stuff is more useful anyways. You might consider getting some shoes though - I always found them a bit pricier in HK than the states, although I could be wrong.


Wish we could meet up - I have a daughter almost your son's age - but unfortunately i've already relocated to seoul. But on this post, some of my close "cyber friends" are on it - and they have lovely kids so i'm sure you'll meet lots of great people soon...