Toddler Sleep Survey

I've read recently that 37% of toddlers wake up at least once in the night and need their parents' assistance to get back to sleep. So I'm curious to see if this is true with other parents. If you would be so kind to answer the following questions.


1. How old is your toddler(s)


2. Does s/he take a daytime nap? What time?


3. What time does he/she have his dinner?


4. What time does s/he go to bed?


5. Does s/he wake up at night? What time? What do you do to get him to go back to sleep?


6. Did you co-sleep/family bed or was your child always separated from you from an infant in his own room in a cot/crib?

1. 22 months girl


2. Nap - 1:40-2:40/3:00


3. 5:30 PM


4. In bed by 7:15, actually falling asleep varies - but generally before 8:00


5. Wakes up at least once in the night, around 2:00 or 3:00 AM. I have to turn on her "fish aquarium" toy (Fisher price) which plays soft music and retuck her in and generally she goes back to sleep. Sometimes she does cry and want a drink of water.


6. Daughter slept on her own in a crib from day 1.

1. 34 mo old girl


2. Nap from 2 - 4, though she can take her sweet time about falling asleep (poo, etc) and would generally love to stay down longer.


3. 6:15 p.m.


4. 8:00 p.m., though falling asleep also varies. Typically I hear her recounting her day to her animals, it's sweet.


5. Wakes up occasionally, maybe once or twice a week between 3:00 and 4:00 a.m. Either she's on top of her quilt and cold so I put it back over her, or she's thirsty and I give her a drink of water (which I keep handy anyway). Lately it's been warmer and we haven't needed to have the heat on so she's not getting thristy or cold and hasn't been waking up.


6. Daughter slept with us for the first 8 months.

1. 26 month girl

2. may only nap once or twice a week for 1.5 hours - I don't let her sleep longer

3. dinner at 5-5.30

4. in bed just after 7pm , sleeps until 7.30am

5. Wakes only if not well

6. Slept in own cot in our room for first couple of months (didn't have a spare room at that stage). Has slept well, at least 7pm until 7.30am since 12 weeks.

1.17 month girl

2.till 3 weeks ago she would go to bed for a good 3h, although I couldn't missed the time that was not later then 12-12:30pm, otherwise she would sleep shorter and always waking up around 3pm (gosh, I miss those days!!!!). Nowadays she is going for a nap around 1pm and most of the time it is 2h but sometimes, like today just a quick 40min. Takes me a long time to sit by her bed.

3.dinner at 6-6:30

4.in her bed, 7:30, falls asleep around 8-8:30pm

as with afternoon nap I need to be there till she falls asleep. Again, it has started just 3 weeks ago, before I would just turn on her music, say good night and bye-bye.

6. She wakes up for last 3 weeks, 2,3 times a night often screaming, sometime cuddle will do but sometimes after 40 min of trying to make her go back to sleep I'll just end up taking her to our bed (bad,bad,bad)!!!!

7. She slept from night 1 in her own bed in her room. Till 3 weeks ago she was a great sleeper, sleeping without any help, from 7:30pm till 8:30am. Slept through the night since 12 weeks.

7. 3 months ago her young sister was born.....

Misza -


your daughter sounds like mine!! Mine was fine, then we had a problem with her when we changed her to the big bed at 20 months, and then fine again, and then a problem started after her little sister came six weeks ago...she was fine for two days and suddenly it was all havoc and waking up in the night. Last night was particularly bad with 4 wakeups, but all were pretty manageable in terms of getting her back to sleep again.


I stayed outside my daughters room until she fell asleep last night -I did weights and squats to amuse myself - and made some noise so she could hear me...


she was a GREAT sleeper from her early days until she turned 20 months - and it's been all topsy turvy since then. Her younger sister sleeps better (only two wakings) than she does!

woody - am so jealous of your sleeping child!!


@@ - are you saying your child doesn't nap at all? Does she not turn into a cranky monster at the end of the day? i'm wondering if I get rid of the nap, will my daughter sleep better through the night? But I do notice on the days where her naps are shorter, her sleep at night is worse - so maybe she still needs the nap - i'm just confused. Last night she was up and crying and running to me every 1.5 hours - my 7 week old cries only once in the night...it's my toddler that's causing me serious unrest.

dear hkchoichoi,

i feel so much like you, exactly the same thoughs....i just left my daughter room and i'm scare to think about the rest of night......

the night before she was up from 1 to 4am, only to wake up at 7am. Am i doing something wrong????

Hi Misza -


last night was not too bad - Emily woke up at 10, went back quickly to sleep, 1:00 and back to sleep again - although on this round she did come out looking for me, and she was up at 6:00 and refused to go back to sleep, but was willing to lie down in a dark room. I'm hoping today will be similar - I sent you a PM - did you get it?

Hi hkchoichoi,


My daughter will only nap once or twice a week so we often have days were she doesn't sleep at all. I do find the days that she doesn't sleep she can become a little cranky (not always) but I think it's part of the process when dropping a sleep. By about the 3rd day she'll be wanting a quick nap.


My son was the smae when he dropped his day time nap but he was much older when that happened.

Ugh - the saga continues.


Misza - how was yours last night? Emily woke up multiple times, and exhausted me. I thought I was seeing an improvement but it seems to be one step forward, one step back constantly. I don't know what to do either - i'm doing everything the books say but still, she wakes up repeatedly in the night looking for me. It's gotten to the point where I'm considering just sleeping with her - any ideas anyone!!

hkchoichoi, did you get my PM?

hkchoichoi--does she wake up screaming for you, or just wake up? It seems she's not going back down again as she comes up to light sleep. Is her temperature ok? (pj weight, room temp, blanket situation). Do you think she might be having nightmares? (she's probably still a bit young for that) Does she need anything from you to get settled again? (water, blanket adjustment, stroke on her forehead)


If you can settle her with just your soft voice, could you try that from progressively further distances? (Back to sleep now Emily, it's still night time...)


Maybe these questions are way off the mark. But I think if she's scared for some reason, you need to handle things differently than if she just needs some level of reassurance, or a bit cooler/warmer room.

My thoughts-


thanks for the questions. There are times when she comes into her light sleep that she goes back to sleep on her own - so I know that she can do it. Othertimes it is more searching for me and looking for me and coming out and finding me.


I've come to the conclusion that she needs more time and attention from me. Her sleep problems began after her sister was born and she started an all day school program so she doesn't see me. I am going back to work so I thought the all day school program was good - she loves it there, has loads of fun there, the teachers are great - but then she comes home and wants me.


The solution? More time with her and a later bedtime. I don't really have any other option as I start work in 10 days and wont' be able to be with her anyways. i'm going to try it and see what happens. I've been trying to get her down at 7:15 - but today we did a back and forth dance for two hours of her coming out screaming for water, or giving me instructions to sit outside her room or looking for her father or just so many stall tactics- which leads me to believe that she just wants me and my attention. i'm going to try and spend more time with her - and try getting her to go down closer to 8:00. She went to bed finally today at 9:15- simply exhausted from all the rigamorole, so perhaps a bit later, but more attention from me will allow her to settle better. I'm with her from 5:45 on - so hopefully a full two hours of my attention will be enough to get her to go to sleep. I don't know.


Any thoughts? I feel like i'm battling her temper tantrums as well -

hi hkchoichoi--so many changes recently for little Emily...it's understandable she might need extra reassurance and care from you. She's probably missing you when she's at school all day, and on top of that has to share you now when she gets home, she may have had some rough moments at school too, someone took a toy or she got frustrated trying to do something....it's a lot for a little one who's just learning how to communicate and growing into her emotions.


I suspect you're probably right about her desire for attention, for cuddles and hugs in particular, but any attention she can get.


One thing I thought about tonight when my daughter was being uncharacteristically whingey all through dinner, and by her bath, I'd really had enough. Finally I said, "sweetheart, you've got to stop this. If you whine any more, it's no story tonight. (My daughter ADORES books) Do you understand? You need to stop this, or I'm not going to read you a story." Well she didn't stop, and I even gave her a second warning before following through. But, what I realized was this: I'd made something a negative that didn't need to be. I could just as easily have said "sweetheart, let's stop this. If you can overcome your whining, we can read TWO books together tonight (usually it's a hard and fast rule of one at bedtime.) And I'll be really proud of you. Can you do that?....and (assuming she does, or makes a really really solid effort) then "good girl, aren't you proud of yourself? Let's pick out our stories" Now mine is nearly a year older than yours so that may not be so helpful.


About a month ago though mine started dragging bedtime out ridiculously. It went from somewhat ridiculous to extraordinarily ridiculous in a matter of a couple of days and I finally just drew a line in the sand. It was the milk piece that was out of control, she wasn't thirsty anymore, just blatently stalling. So I told her "once you hand the milk back to me, that's it, no more until morning. Do you understand?" And she'd hand me the milk and I'd ask again, "You're done with this now, right? You just gave it to me so you must be done" Well in 2 days all the silliness was gone, made me wish I'd been firm weeks before. Interestingly, with that one limit, everything else about "lights out" went smoothly as well.


I'm not working though and she's only in school 3 mornings a week (in a parent/child class at that), so I don't have the nagging question about whether she needs more mummy time. Which may give me extra confidence about drawing the line. Patiently and nicely, but it's still a line.


Incidently, I think limits are important even if they are missing you, they're just harder for parents to feel comfortable about enforcing.


Sorry to jabber on for so long and not all that relevently....hope tonight goes better (alot better). I'll think some more. You are an amazing mum and your girls are fortunate to have you. Try not to stress too much about what happens 10 days from now.

Emily woke up screaming for me at 4:00 AM and nothing I could do would calm her down. She had her sippy cup of water but she wanted different water and so it was back and forth to the kitchen.


I try to set the line - and she's pretty smart so she understands what i'm doing - but what do you do when she just screams at the top of her lungs and sobs uncontrollably? I try to sit tight and just let her have it out, but at 4:00 AM -it's crazy having to listen to it. And I worry about her waking both her father and her little sister so there's that issue.


Should I just give in and sleep with her? She finally settled a bit past five with my lying down next to her on the floor while she was on the bed. I snuck out later - am I setting a bad precedent? My gut instinct says yes but I have no other idea what to do! This is too exhausting and there seems to be no relief in sight. I'll see what happens after I put her to bed a bit later today.

Oh yuck hichoichoi, you must be SOoo exhausted and at your wits end. What you're going through now, and breastfeeding too, is really really taxing.


Well, here are my thoughts...but you know your daughter and yourself better than anybody...


I could never let the uncontrollable sobs go on, I'd need to (at least) stroke for a minute and reassure verbally, and if sleeping with her would take care of the (immediate) issue at 4 a.m., I'd probably do that too--I'd be too tired not to. For mine, when she screams at the top of her lungs and sobs uncontrollably, she gets so worked up--and woken up--that sleep afterward takes a long time coming, so I do what I need to to arrest that.


Mine is old enough to reason with, and when I prep her about limits ahead of time, she does really well with them. So when we switched from the milk option in the middle of the night (which took a trip to the kitchen) to just water from her sippy cup in the hall if she was thirsty, I didn't make the switch all of a sudden the middle of one night. I told her the night before (when she was having milk) that the NEXT night if she was thirsty, she would have water, not milk. Did she understand? No milk, but water if she wanted it. And then as she was getting ready for bed the next night I asked her if she woke up and was thirsty, what was I going to give her to drink? Right, water. And again as she finished her milk in bed, "ok, now milk will go to sleep until morning. If you get thirsty again tonight, what's mummy going to give you? Right, water." So when she woke up and asked for milk, and I said "remember sweetie? what are we going to drink now? That's right, water." and it was next to no issue. I still remind her that she'll get water if she wakes up thirsty. I've learned it's worth it, as mine does SO much better with things she doesn't prefer when she's not surprised by them, and especially in the middle of the night. So if she has a stuffy nose and I think she may wake up congested and unable to sleep, I'll tell her as she goes to bed "now sweetie, if you wake up and your nose is stuffy, what's mummy going to give you? That's right, medicine" Then the medicine is no issue at all, otherwise it is a HUGE ordeal.


Would any of that apply to your situation? For example, if you walked her through just what she should expect if she wakes up in the middle of the night...."Mummy will come and in and give you a cuddle and then Emily will go back to sleep and Mummy will too", or "Mummy will lie down with you for a few minutes, but just for tonight, tomorrow night I'll give you a nice big hug instead"...whatever transition you're comfortable with that backs off a bit each night yet prepares her for what to expect. I think I'd make it very soft and gentle, maybe a bit more than you think is necessary the first night or two so you're confident she's secure and comfortable--it'd be manageable because you have a plan. Maybe you can't see the whole plan yet, but you have an idea about the next several days and it's not for forever.


Likewise, after the rigamarole about the water, something like "ok tomorrow night, this water here is all we have. Just this water that's here next to your bed. Mummy's not going back and forth to the kitchen for different water and then Emily is going to go right to sleep" And another reminder as she's going to bed. Maybe even run through her entire bedtime routine, step by step, whatever it is--we do this, it's been invaluable. And as you finish one step, ask her what the next one is, with a "right, and then we...", with the last steps along the lines of "and then Emily and Mummy will have a cuddle and then Mummy will sing a song and tuck you in and then it's time to sleep."


Two things helped our bedtime routine at different junctures, one was ages ago when she wasn't letting me leave the room and I started singing a song as the last thing before I left, and I stroked her head as I sang. I let her know that was going to be the last thing and (for some reason) she let me go easily after the song. Obviously I kept that up. The second was recently when she started wanting the door to stay open, which was fine, but then a few weeks later started a whinging binge. And I treated the open door as a privilege..."Sweetie, if you want the door to stay open, you need to stop this whining. Do you understand? If you keep whining, I'm going to close the door" Of course she'd whine louder when I pulled the door close, so I'd open it and say "you can have the door open, but you need to stop this whining. Can you do that?" It was two days with a few minutes of back and forth on the door, but then it was over.


I don't know if any of this helps hkchoichoi, but it's all I can think of now. You have my complete sympathy though. I really hope you see some good progress soon.

Well - I don't know if it's an improvement - but I feel like I'm always backtracking!! I was dealing with the massive temper tantrums when putting her down (At the beginning of this thread, at the time, I could just put her in her room and she would go to bed) but then it developed into temper tantrums suddenly. So now, I have to hold her in my arms, and I say to her "i will hold you now but you'll have to lie down in your bed soon." So then I hold her for a minute, and then I'll see "You need to lie down in your bed." Sometimes she'll say "No" and then i'll say "Okay - i'll hold you for a bit more, but next time you will lie down and I will tap you." So then usually she goes and lies down and then I have to stay and tap her. And then I try to stop tapping and withdraw a bit sometimes she lets me and othertimes she indicates that she needs me to tap her more. But i'm trying to avoid the massive temper tantrum before bed -which makes going to bed last over 2 hours instead of the 10 minutes I feel like it should be.


I don't know - i'll have to try your "prediction" routine where she tells me what's going to happen next. I do tell her what's coming up continually and that seems to help. The nighttime wakings were getting better for a couple of days - Wed, Thurs, Friday night she only woke up once. I got so jazzed thinking that it was the new change, but then Saturday and Sunday were both pretty miserable with multiple wakings and demanding attention in the middle of the night.


i'm seriously at the end of my tether. I called my mom bawling on the phone just telling her i'm headed for a nervous breakdown. Part of it is my personality - I like to be in control of everything and the fact that Emily is SO OUT OF CONTROL drives me to distraction - I know that's part of it.


But the other part is the continual crankiness and crying because she just isn't sleeping well -and i'm on edge because i'm not sleeping well - UGH!


Thanks for letting me vent and giving me some tips every time. I need the tips - any idea how long this "transition" could take? I read a passage yetserday about how no one ever died from seasickness - even though it's really bad when it's happening, no one's ever died from it. I guess I have to remind myself that no one's ever died from having a crazy 22 month old.


My thoughts - do you ever think of hitting your daughter? I've never come close before - but yesterday I had to seriously sit on my hands. I've never thought of myself as a violent person - but this is bringing out the worst in me!

been reading some online resources - many suggest a reward chart with stars and stickers and the whatnot - as being really effective. I'm wondering if it will be with EMily? i've shied away from it generally because I wasn't confident that she would understand the concept - but I am willing to give it a try - is 22 months old too young to understand a reward chart system?

been reading some online resources - many suggest a reward chart with stars and stickers and the whatnot - as being really effective. I'm wondering if it will be with EMily? i've shied away from it generally because I wasn't confident that she would understand the concept - but I am willing to give it a try - is 22 months old too young to understand a reward chart system?

I was wondering how you were doing hkchoichoi. I'm glad you checked back in...and very sorry you had such a sleepless weekend. I remember so clearly when we went from two wakeups to one a night--the difference in restedness (and daytime patience) was amazing. And then when we went from one to none (or only rarely)....oh it felt so good.


I know sleep issues were conquered in your household ages ago, it's just been, what, the last two months or so--since the switch to the big bed and the arrival of a baby sister. Still, two months of seriously broken sleep and the ongoing demands of two children is enough to bring anyone to places they've never been before.


You always seem such a sensible and amazingly loving mum, I love reading your thoughts to others, so, if YOU had to sit on YOUR hands, all I can say, is good for you for sitting on them! Mine has certainly pushed me to the end of my rope. The couple of reactions I've had (not preconsidered) have scared her, and me: hitting the table, coming down close and quick with a stern face and a stare down....They did arrest whatever was going on, but she was scared and cried too and needed a cuddle. I think we both did.


Did you ever read Richard Ferber (How to Solve your Child's Sleep Problems)? I wasn't going to, all I ever heard about it was various third hand summaries of the cry schedule and didn't want to have anything to do with that. I finally did buy his book though, ages ago and on the advice of my doctor, and found refreshingly informative, sensitive and reasonable. Not what I was expecting at all. I'd venture to say that the majority of people who think they are applying his methods have never read his book, or they wouldn't be doing what they're doing in the way they're doing it (or for the age child they are dealing with).


I took a spin through his book again a week or so ago, sort of on your behalf. He doesn't speak directly to "sleep disturbances due to arrival of sibling" (unfortunately) but he does address the getting out of bed issue, and suggests closing (not locking) the door as a consequence, as most kids want the door open, but only briefly and gives a schedule. If you are interested in what he has to say that subject, I'll either write up that chapter for you or fax it, whichever you'd like.


He makes it sound like these sorts of sleep issues (which are different than, say, bedwetting) can be resolved in several days to a week, depending on how much progress you are making each day and that you are following a schedule and following it consistently.


He also has quite a bit to say about night terrors and nightmares--do you think they may play any part in her middle of the night wakings? I have quite a library of child-related resources, yet this book has been one of the most worthwhile. I've learned a lot about sleep in general and enough to develop methods in our home that are consistent with what he suggests and work for us.


On the star chart, Gina is a big fan and advocates using them in potty training which she says can often begin as early as 18 months. So they might well be useful for you. We learned about the potty at 29 months and I used a star chart, but I'm not sure mine was as motivated by that as she was by the m&m's :-)


Thinking of you hkchoichoi, hope you see some good progress--and soon.

hkchoichoi - just a thought i had as i was reading through this thread for the first time.


you breastfeed your baby, yes? if so, in the middle of the night too? how about emily, how long did you breastfeed her for?


if you do breastfeed the baby, does emily see this? does she know you wake up for the baby in the middle of the night? if so, maybe she wants you to wake up for HER too, so that she knows you love her just as much. if you did breastfeed her and breastfed her up until recently, she could also remember that and think why is this little one taking my place? she could think that even if she doesn't remember breastfeeding, etc., etc. is your new baby up a lot during the day? if so, maybe the nighttime is the time when emily feels she can get you alone to herself again. also, does the baby sleep in your room, emily's room, or her own room?


sounds like she could use some reassurance and maybe more involvement with your time with the baby??? just some thoughts. do you have books for her that address having a new sibling? do you ask her for help with the baby? tell her about how great a big sister she is, etc., etc.?


on top of it, temper tantrums tend to come around this age, so you've got that to contend with.

Interesting RiceT, I wonder if you're right...hard to know just what goes through a little ones mind, but it seems adjusting from being an only child to one of two is difficult for a lot of (all?) first born children.


I've been wondering if these wake-ups are maybe linked to all day school, perhaps too much too soon and she craves more just plain down time by herself....


It does seems there's some emotional root, doesn't it?


Somebody suggested a bathe-able doll and dolls' bathtub earlier, or maybe on another thread, I thought that was a great idea and am planning to also find/make a sling and baby bjorn for my daughter's doll when our (adopted) baby comes home. Her birthday is around the corner and her presents will be doll-oriented, a wicker cradle, a highchair, and the doll which she doesn't yet have. She's not all that interested in dolls yet, but and having a real one around may make the toy more intriguing. And it'll facilitate roll play. My mum told loads of stories about all the things I would mimic with my dolls that she was doing with my brother. (There's 26 mo. between us.)


hkchoichoi, I don't know what your helper situation is like in Korea...but if you're occupied with things other than your two children at the moment, would it make sense for you to have someone in, even for just a few weeks to help you through this hump? If you can reliably nap while Isabella's sleeping, you might have more energy/patience until the nightimes are sorted out.


Remember, (aim to) follow your plan and keep your approach consistent...

Hi HKchoichoi


37% thats interesting, our son sleeps well but very rarely will he sleep the whole night without a quick visit from one of us - usually around 4am.

We figure he will grow out of it?


How old is your toddler(s)

18months

2. Does s/he take a daytime nap? What time?

Yes, (he) 11am - 1pm or sometimes as late as 2.30pm


3. What time does he/she have his dinner?

Dinner @ 5.30 - 6pm

4. What time does s/he go to bed?

7.30pm lights out after stories (sometimes 7pm if he's tired)


5. Does s/he wake up at night? What time? What do you do to get him to go back to sleep?

Cries out at 11pm but goes back to sleep unaided.

Usually around 4am cries in his sleep, he doesnt actually seem to wake up fully unless we leave him, then he is awake for a long time. Gut reaction tells us he is having night mares/tremors.

All we need to do is talk to him ''shhh back to sleep Luca" etc for a moment and off he goes, sometimes we give him his dummy/pacifier.


6. Did you co-sleep/family bed or was your child always separated from you from an infant in his own room in a cot/crib?

Separated from birth, then when we moved here (Dec) he slept in our room (separate bed) for 2 months - she still woke in the night. Now in a single bed - low to the floor in his own room (next to ours).

His diet is sugar free and free from red meat to try and keep his internal levels balanced and therefore make it easier to help teach him how to calm himself.

Not breastfed.


Would love to have an uninterrupted nights sleep, I know we have it lucky compared to many as the above routine hasn't changed since he was 6 months old. However would be wonderful for one of us not to have to get up in the night. Any advice?


Good luck with your survey.


Working mum

(Sai Kung)

interesting idea about the breastfeeding - i had a bit of an epiphany last night - Emily watched me put Isabella to bed - which is on my breast, and when Isabella cried, I went to her and gave her my breast again, which Emily saw.


In the evening, emily cried and kept on saying "baby" and doing something - but Iwasn't sure what. I picked her up and cradled her and rocked her back and forth and she immediately relaxed - I told my husband "i think Emily wants to fall asleep the same as Isabella" which was so heartbreaking for me. I hate that Emily feels that she's been pushed aside - I'm trying hard to make her feel loved all the time - but still, it's hard to do it all the time...


I'm trying the chart - i'll let you know how it goes - Emily woke up twice last night - once was a bit difficult to get her back to sleep, once was pretty easy.

Yesterday was relatively easy although it was several night wakings - Emily does want me to cuddle and rock her but then will happily lie down on the bed after I snuggle with her a bit. As long as she doesn't have the massive temper tantrums i'm content - those are hard to deal with at various ungodly hours of the night.


I've got the star chart up, but havne't been able to do the sticker part yet - we'll have to start that tonight.

2babs -


SIXTEEN TIMES A NIGHT!!! I should be counting my lucky stars - between my newborn and Emily -the most has been six - so i'm really fortunate.


Yesterday was a bear - getting her down, her two wake ups were difficult, and I got really frustrated with her at her 4:00 AM wakeup - I have to remember to try and be more patient with her - but at 4:00 AM - all I want to do is sleep!

my thoughts -


I am curious about Richard Ferber's book - heard of him, but never had any need for him since I had used Gina with Emily with great success and didn't have to ever really do much to get her to sleep through the night...until now...


I went online at Amazon and read the reviews and MOST of them were regarding babies, infants, in cribs. Do you think it will be worth buying if Emily is in her own big bed, can escape and come looking for me in conjunction with the massive temper tantrums? If so, I intend to buy it - but I'm curious... also - there is news that he has revised some of his original ideas and is coming out the new version in May...should I just grin and bear it and hold on until May?


Emily went down with no tears today, although I was by her side the whole time - it took 50 minutes - I miss the days when I could just lay her down and she would sleep!

Hi hkchoichoi--


I hadn't realized a new edition was coming out in a few weeks...that's just around the corner, maybe check out the current edition from the library (can you get English language library books?) and order the new one for your bookshelf? This book has been a key resource for me, one I wish I'd bought in hardcover.


I've found him very very helpful, informative, and authoritative. Ferber is a leading authority on sleep and has done loads of research on it through Children's Hospital in Boston, a top pediatric hospital. I read it first when my daughter was quite a bit younger (6 mo?), and noticed then that most of the scenarios discussed were of children who were quite a bit older than she, years older. There's along section that discusses escaping from the big bed.


What you're going through now has been, curiously, in the back of my mind quite a bit. It's really good news that Emily is settling now without the tantrums and tears, yet, as you've said, she does need to move to the place where she's happy with a simple loving bedtime routine and then sleeps on through the night. Reading Ferber will get you there. You'll understand sleep so much better and whether you follow the one of his "schedules" that seems to apply the best, or devise something that's a combination of things with your own added dose of motherly love and knowledge of your child...you'll get there, and much faster than you would on your own.


It does seem silly to buy the current edition now--but then again, by May she should be sleeping like the good ol' days. If you can't get a hold of copy from a library, PM me and I'll loan you mine. All yellow highlighted and everything :-)


Hope your angel has a good night tonight...

Hey My thoughts-


would love to borrow - but as I'm no longer in HK - will be difficult and I wouldn't ask you to mail it to me here as the shipping alone will cost more than the book - and then what? What do you mean by schedules? I've always had a pretty rigid set schedule for Emily - not veered from it much - mostly Gina Fords' but slightly adapted since she has a nap from school that takes her later than Gina would have taken her. So she wakes up later as well.


i'm tempted to buy it - but the new news is that Ferber is backtracking from his hardline in his original book and has a "softer" approach 20 years later - so do I wait for the softer approach? Or do I try to hardline it.


Thanks for thinking of me and keeping me in your thoughts. you're probably gearing up wondering if the same is going to happen once the adoption process gets finalized - i'm really excited for you! I've been reading your discussion on what's going on with you which I found really interesting - as my husband and I want more children, but i'm unsure if I will be physically capable of having another pregnancy - just too tired and feeling too old!!


ah - to be in Hk and be able to get the book from the library!!!


yesterday - Emily was better. I gave her a star today on her chart - which led to a DIFFERENt sort of fight because she decided she really liked the star stickers and wanted to stick the whole sheet on. I made a mistake though - I should have let her do it right after she got up so reinforce that she had had a good night - instead of much later when sleep was far from her mind...just wasn't thinking. She woke up twice, small tears, no tempers, a bit of a cuddle and then she was happy to lay down and fall asleep in under 10 minutes. I will take that over her prior scenario of kicking and screaming and having a fit!!

hi hkchiochio--SOoo glad the last couple of nights have been much better. Yes, of course I'm wondering if we'll be facing something similiar in a few months. In fact, your big bed transition issues have caused me to keep ours in her crib until we're settled in with the new one. She's not climbing out, as Emily did, and we've acquired a second cot from a friend for the baby so it's not urgent. We'll have other issues to contend with instead, I'm sure :-)


I am more than happy to mail you my book. Honestly. I'll order the new one, since there is one, and this would give you a chance to get started. It seems a shame to "waste" several weeks or a month. Two easy wake-ups a night may be a far cry better than before, but both of you will do much better once you're sleeping through. The underlying research and understanding about sleep can't have changed much, though I can see he might back off a bit--maybe even because so many parents are misapplying his approach. People talk about letting their itty bitty babies cry it out, and think it's what he recommends. But if you really read what he says and think about it, crying doesn't need to play such a central role (and shouldn't be employed for babies under 3-4 mo.) It didn't in our home. The "tone" with the child can be tough and stern, or soft but consistent. The important thing for us was to steadily back off the parent's involvement in the child's process of going to sleep. That's the "schedule" part, not 7:00 bath, 7:30 bed (though also important)but less and less involvement.


My feeling in your situation is now that back-to-sleep is more stabilized (re: tantrums/tears), you're in a good place to start to encourage her sleep independence.


She's really fortunate to have such an empathetic mum.


Hey, on adding to your family, no sleep deprived mum can be rational about decisions like that! :-). It'll all seem less exhausting in a few months. HK is a great place to adopt btw, but only if you live here. We should be approved in the next week or so, then we wait for a match.

Hey 2babs -


thanks for the encouragement - how are yours sleeping these days? I had a fairly easy time with mine this evening, although last night was pretty difficult between the hours of 3-5:30 as Emily was up constantly...and continually... but thanks for the encouragement...


I am going to take My thought's offer and borrow her book...My Thoughts - i've Pm'd you... THANKS!

Hi there hkchoichoi, your book's in the mail as of this morning.


Would you believe the GPO was closed Good Fri, Easter Saturday and will be on Easter Monday, but OPEN on Easter Sunday? Go figure.


If it turns out to be half as useful for you as it was for me, it's worth sending. Keep us posted and Happy Easter :-) (I pm'd you too)