Mums & Work - ideas?

There must be many of you reading this that had or have high power jobs, with business travel and all the joys that go with the suit...


Well, now that you have a baby do you still want that type of career?


I was convinced that I would continue to be a workaholic... but now with baby I think it might be time for a change...


What alternatives are there in HK that allow more flexibility to be with your baby, and still pay?


Start your own business? If so what?

Work at home? if so what?

Other jobs?


Any great ideas out there??

CRJ..

I completely understand how and what you feel because it is exactly what I thought and how I felt after the birht of my new child...

and 5 years after: I have indeed set up my own business.. you won't work less (rather more actually), won't pay at first but at least you can manage your time according to your children's needs.. so ask me in 6/12 months again and I'll let you know if it was worth it!!

I haven't had my baby yet but am definitely thinking about my options post partum. I feel like it is too early for me to decide what to do before I know what life will be like with my baby, but I am definitely interested to see what other moms are doing with their brains!

I went back to work three months after birth! You actually need an understanding boss.........I made sure I left on time - 7 p.m. at the latest- to be the one taking my daughter to bed......I make sure I'm the one who takes care of her in the morning as well.......! It needs organization & routine- make most of the weekends and spend it focused on your child and nobody else...! The first six weeks back at work I was fighting bad conscience and felt very unhappy, but it's actually worse on the mother than the child to be separated during the day! They grow up like this and don't know any better ! As long as you make sure the child gets all your attention once you are at home it'll be all fine!

Saturday, February 5, 2005


Retail Notebook: Moms setting up online businesses

By KRISTEN MILLARES BOLT

SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER


(excerpts only)


"Women are seeing that they can achieve economic independence and professional ambitions while still attending to their personal responsibilities as mothers," said Sharon Hadary, executive director of the Center for Women's Business Research. "Technology has become a great enabler for these home-based women to have businesses that can be very profitable."


Women own about 20 percent of all home-based business, which make up more than half of the 17.3 million small businesses in the United States, according to a study published in 2000 by the Small Business Administration. In the Seattle-Bellevue-Everett area alone, businesses that are majority-owned by women generate $36 billion in sales per year.


"The amount of money it takes to set up a Web site is easily recovered by small sales, so you can do a really good business with a niche Web site," said Joanne Pratt, whose Dallas firm, Joanne H. Pratt Associates, conducted the survey. "Women who are self-employed with children under 6 years of age are the most likely to work at home."


The Center for Women's Business Research found that between 1997 and 2004, women-owned companies grew 17 percent, nearly twice the 9 percent growth of all firms. Fifteen to 20 percent of all women-owned businesses are in retail, whether online or brick and mortar.


"Women are getting into business at a faster rate than the national average," said Julie Weeks, executive director of the National Women's Business Council. Weeks said that although the majority of the nation's 6.7 million women-owned businesses are small, they employ 10 million people and generate $1.2 trillion in annual revenue.


That money comes in one order at a time for Susie Cavanagh, who began selling hard-to-find breast-feeding products, among other things, at BabysBottomLine.com a year and a half ago.


Cavanagh begins her day at 5:30 a.m., updating her Web site before her children wake up. After taking two of her children to school, she packs her 2-year-old daughter into the car to begin her deliveries to the greater Seattle area.


"I only do deliveries Monday through Saturday, but I make lots of exceptions because I know how hard it is for mothers with newborns to get out of the house," said Cavanagh. "I pick my own hours and do what I want when I want to do it, which is nice when you have kids."


Though there are no studies that show how many home- based female entrepreneurs have children, many of the country's research firms are beginning to track those numbers.


Some believe that today's home-based businesses will be the predecessors to a stronger, more vibrant home-based industry in the future.


"There has been an increased interest in home-based businesses, which don't have to be just cottage industry," said Erin Fuller, director of the National Association of Women Business Owners.


Women-owned companies are hiring twice as quickly as the national average, according to the Center for Women's Business Research. Center director Hadary noted that women with a small business often look to their peers for help.


"Not only are women using the Internet to leverage their own businesses, but they are also creating networks for other home-based businesses that provide products and services," said Hadary.


In the Seattle-Everett- Bellevue area, roughly 128,000 women-owned companies employ around 254,000 people, according to estimates by the research center.


Those numbers are likely only to grow, Lesley Spencer, who founded the professional association Home-Based Working Moms in 1995, noted that it has become more socially acceptable to work from home in the past decade.


"The Internet provides immediate storefront for these women to have a product or service to sell," she said. "Now, people are jealous that they can stay home."

I was working in a non-profit organisation before giving birth - since the pay wasn't significant, i figured it would be best to stay home to look after my baby instead of spending most of my pay on a domestic helper/infant care.


I have come to realise after almost 12 weeks that motherhood is the toughest job of all. But at the same time, i really hope it'll get easier so that i can do something else from home to contribute to the household income and generally break the routine of looking after a baby 24/7 but yet be the main caregiver. my husband is thinking of branching out as an independent consultant and he sees me as part of his business plan to help with finances, etc. I am quite happy to do that but at the same time, there are also other things i want to do, like set up my home business, selling things i want to sell and i set the schedule. But can we really have it all?

I think it is important to have a relatively flexible workplace. I used to work 12 hours a day but I now work about 10. I generally ensure that I leave by 7.30pm so that i can have at least half an hour with my child and put him to bed. I also take my child to one class per week during work hours. I have a Eurpoean boss who is used to women taking a year or so off before coming back to work so considering that I was back 10 weeks later he doesn't mind me having some "family time". In any case my job has to be done - it is up to me to manage my time as best I can.

I have to admit that my priorities have changed - I never thought I'd say that but my job and career is very much secondary now. My child comes first. Having said that, I personally couldn't give up work all together - my brain needs it, my ego needs it (my wallet doesn't mind either!).

Just playing devil's advocate here. I can understand the wish to go back to work for your own independence/ego/confidence/cashflow/adult company/break from house etc., but do you really think that it is the only way to keep your brain functioning? Surely there are other ways to challenge yourself? Before I had children I had a very highpowered job in M&A and dreaded the whole 'coffee morning scene' during my maternity leave. I was pretty arrogant in assuming that everyone else who spent some time at home was less dynamic/intelligent or whatever than me. That all changed when I learned that my neighbours (housewives) were literally former rocket scientists and award winning economists. Suddenly I had no problem finding intellectual stimulation, the only problem I had was keeping up.


There are plenty of courses etc. that you can do if you would rather spend more time with your children, but still keep those brain cells working.

Mum of 2, WELL SAID! Bravo!

I have to say that the level of education and interesting women that I have met here in HK in the stay at home mum circles has also been amazing... CIA agents, consular staff, bankers, scientists, psychologists, fashion designers, history etc... and further education is definitely one way of filling the small pockets of time you have at home with baby. Thank god for the internet - I have at times set myself little goals like reading some of the classics (not good while you are sleep deprived with newborn as you tend to nod off!) or a language or just taking the opportunity to learn new domestic skills like nutrition/cooking etc - whatever you might be interested in and never had enough time to do while you were at work - who knows where any of those interests may lead? I teach now becase it fits in with the kids, pays for their education (so whilst the salary is not as high powered as before it does contribute) and allows me all the school hols etc and I am at the kids school for all those assemblies and functions. I also get to know all their friends really well :). When they are all off hand I will also have kept some sort of work record that may lead to something else. You can have it all ---- just not all at the same time. I struggled for many years of the children's early years feeling frusrated/bored/resentful until I just accepted that this was a phase of life I had chosen, there was no way I could compete with hubby's earning power and so it made no real sense for me to be away from home 12 hours a day and paying a multitude of people to do my mummy jobs and having us both stressed out at the weekend trying to catch up with the household management. (Our first ten years of family life were in australia/uk wihtout domestic help) It is still true I think what women contribute to the household when they stay at home is not appreciated - but it will be when they are parents themsleves!

Hello ~ I'd just like to share my experience for you to use as a reference.


I've just given up my job as a secondary school teacher, which I had worked for 3.5 years. As soon as I started working, I found I was expecting and I now have 2 little ones.


I worked my way through each pregnancy and went back to work after 10 weeks each time. I wanted to take time off but was scared to quit my job in case I couldn't find another one that was as good.


In the end however, I found I couldn't do everything properly - take good care of my 2 boys and also do my duty by my students. I didn't want to work p/t so I quit.


Although I've only quit a couple of months, I've already had comments implying that I'm 'lazy' for staying at home 'playing with the children' and sponging off my poor husband instead of helping him out by bringing in an income.


What I would say is that if you want to take time off, do it at the end of your pregnancy / immediately after your child is born. If you return to work straight away, get burnt out and leave when your child is a toddler, people find that a lot harder to accept. They can't understand what you're doing. People think you're within your rights to quit work and stay home for a year after Baby is born, but they won't think you're within your rights if Baby is already weaned / walking.


I'm not saying I agree with these prejudices, I'm just making an observation. It's sad that we can't enjoy just a twelvemonth with our babies without people asking "So when are you going back to work?" or "Why don't you get a job?"



Anyway, hope this helps.

Hi, I used to have a high power job too and gave it up when i was expecting my first baby. Now i have another one and my number 1 is only 2. I could not leave them to a helper all day long, or to anyone else for that matter. I feel very fortunate we do not need my salary to pay the bills. Although I often think back about the time when i was traveling a lot, earning well and having good fun at work, this counts little compared to leaving my babies behind.

I enjoy taking my daughter to playgroup, and to ballet, and to the gym, and I will do the same for my 4 month-old.

At the playgroup (Montessori) where we go, there are 8 children in the group and only 3 are accompanied by their mums. The other kids are accompanied by their helpers. Not sure if all the basent mums are at work but I am sorry to say that the behaviour, overall development, language, etc.. of the other kids is not as good as the ones taken by the mums.

I recently visited my friends back in France. They all work full time because otherwise they could not pay for the mortage of their houses. They hardly see their kids during the week, and the kids at night act out probably because they want the attention that their poor parents are just too plain tired and rushing out trying to fix supper, giving batch, etc... to give them. I was shocked by the way my friends talked to their children, even resorting to physical punishment to make them behave. Plus the guilt of leaving the children under someone else's care, etc, etc....

It is a shame there is so little part-time work in HK. I set up a (humble) business doing written translation and I work during my kids' naptime and at night after they go to bed because I have no time at all when they are both awake (both under 2), however I still feel the pressure to work and have some kind of financial independence, which makes my days rather long at times.

Regarding intellectual stimulation, i read that although mom's brain might be shrinking (by 1%) at each pregnancy, yet the challenge of raising a baby, juggling with schedules, etc, etc.. makes it up for it and mothers are supposedly more clever than their kidless counterparts...ahaha...

I am hoping I can get back to work when my kids are at school, at least on a part-time basis because I still want to be around when they get back from school.

I think these are all wonderful posts. I have a VERY strong opinion on this matter, but everyone preaches his own book. So, here's my story.



I was well educated, always wanted to make money for financial independence, and was pretty good at what I did. During graduate school, I met my husband and started my own business. A few years later, I got married, had my own TV show and got pregnant. I was thrilled to be pregnant, but how to balance career and being a mother? I knew my own personality -- if I have to stay up three nights in a row to win a pitch or complete a project, I will. I tried to tone down the work, but I couldn't. I stopped working when my first was 5 months. The sign for me was when I nearly sliced off my finger while cooking because I was so tired. I didn’t care about my finger – all I could think of was what I wouldn’t be able to do with my son. I had to experience this though to fully understand how nuts I was to try to balance both. In hindsight, I was rather clueless about my child until that point as well -- and he suffered.



I now have 2 children under 2, and I am totally thrilled I do not work. It was very difficult at first to not have dual incomes and to be financially dependent upon my husband, but it's wonderful now. One needs the support of one's husband to make this work, no matter what the final decision. There is also a very strong expectation of women in some cultures to make money. This has brainwashed us to equate it with self worth. I say, screw that. I just look at my children and know I did the right thing.



Now, I have many friends who stay at home with their children and many that continue to work. Again, as stated previously by other posters, I find that my friends who work are rather clueless about their children. I often wonder why they had them at all. They spoil their children, do not know how to discipline them, do not understand their children's behavior/development, set completely unreasonable expectations of them... Not to mention, their children are physically, emotionally and intellectually delayed in many ways. I mean, for example, to leave them with a caregiver who does not speak your first language perfectly and to expect your child to do so? I ask only this, if your children are going to leave home for school at age 3, why not give them everything until that time. Many child development specialists will argue that ages 0-3 form a child's entire being. Ages 0-3 is not only the time you discipline and prepare your child for the rest of his or her life, it's also the time when the child is preparing you for motherhood and the rest of your life. It's discipline both ways.


I love the phrase, “Baby your baby when they’re a baby, or they will always be a baby.” This time forms their self-confidence to be able to move away from you as they know you are always there. Always. Then, you have given your child the skills to “conquer the world.”



Personally, I was raised by a very financially successful, full-time working mother, and I would never do that to my children. To be honest, she still is clueless on many fronts. She missed: concerts, plays, sporting events, awards ceremonies… Even when she was there, she didn’t understand…



I will return to work, but I have told myself that this decade of my life is for child-rearing. During this time, I hope to have so many life experiences that a good entrepreneurial opportunity will arise, at which point I will pursue it. (I imagine that many other mothers reading this feel the same way.) Actually, being a mom, I already seem to have so many small business ideas which may turn into big business ideas.


As for intellectual stimulation, well, I may not know what has happened in the world for days if not weeks, but who cares? My high-powered, corporate husband can't figure out what to do with my children the way I can. I'm the expert at this and he's the expert at that. His career didn't happen overnight, nor did mine. Let's please try to give ourselves some credit. Staying at home is frightening to some because it's so much harder. It's the hardest and MOST rewarding job in the world. I feel going back to work, unless financially necessary, is such the easy route. And, now that I know how rewarding staying at home is, I wouldn’t put on a suit for work UNLESS I knew it was going to benefit my family.



Important last note, the only time I find it OK for mothers to work (other than for financial need), is if they are better off away from their child. If the child is better off being taken care of by a helper. On the same note, if the family functions better for it. There are some situations like this.



No, we canNOT "have it all." The 90's taught us that. But, to me, having a family IS having it all.

I would love to stay at home with my son, but unfortunately there would be no food on the table if I did that (seriously - I'm not working so I can pay for shoes and manicures, but for food and housing, before anyone jumps in about working mothers being uncaring ones). So, like most women in HK I have to work. I went back to my job after 10 weeks (pitiful - shame on the HK government), making it very clear that I would be leaving work at 5 every day to go home and be with my family. If anything needs to happen after 5 then I need to be given notice, so no last minute meetings. Obviously this doesn't make me very popular, but tough. My company is full of high-powered single career women, they contribute to the company, while I contribute to society - it is my children who will be paying for their healthcare when they are old. OK, rant over.


I would love to work part-time/freelance, and I would love to start my own business, but I realise that this would not be a good time to do it. For the first 6 months back at work I was frankly a complete waste of space - 4 hours sleep a night does not make for a good worker. Since then, I have been concentrating far more on my son (and expecting no.2) that my job. For me, I think if I had tried anything new during this period it would have turned into a disaster. I have accepted this, and I will continue my job to pay the bills until I'm back in good shape mentally (will that ever happen?).


About leaving a child with a helper - like others have said, as long as you spend quality time with your child he or she will still love you more than anyone in the world. My son adores my helper, but the second I walk in the door he drops everything and comes straight to me. He sees me first thing every morning and last thing at night, and knows that I am his mummy.

I consider myself one of the lucky ones; I had a fantastic career, loved it but did not have to work, so gave up to look after my children. 100% my choice, and backed up by my husband (without whom I would not have had the choice).


I totally agree with mum of 2 above, about there being plenty of ways to get intellectual stimulation without having to spend your times in meetings and hopping on and off planes. Part of that is pure luck, eing surrounded by other ex-lawyers, doctors, bankers etc. who talk about more than nappy choice over coffee and during playdates. I also agree with her that there are plenty of other reasons that people go back to work.


I have to disagree with those comments about the manners and development of children of working mothers. Most of my friends at home had to or wanted to go back to work after they had children (main breadwinners etc.). There are exceptions (there always are), but on the whole, their children are loving, polite and intelligent little people. Equally, I have friends who stay at home and have raised little brats.


I have not regretted my choice to give up the negotiations (not that I have really, my 3 year old owuld give most blue chip CEOs a real run for their money), the travel and the money for one second. I have certainly gained from the experience. I hope my children have too, but there are plenty of women who do an amazing job of finding good help (admittedly most are trained nannies) and managing their time without stunting their children's development.

Th comments on this thread are so inspiring and helpful.


Like many women above, I work in a demanding stressful job for a global company and a global client that requires lots of evening conference calls and travel.


Like many women above, I also pay the rent and bills, as my husband has recently started his own business and it is not steady income for us


I did go back to work 10 weeks after #1. I had a flexible arrangement with my company.


1- 4 months back at work:

Work from home, go to Central 2-3x week for meetings (in between feeding times)

No business travel


5-6 months back to work:

2 mornings in the office a week

No business travel


7-9 months back to work:

5 mornings in the office a week

One day business trips possible


10-12 months back at work:

this is still being negotiated but hopefully

5 mornings a week

five day business trips possible


This has worked for me, but it has been very difficult (of course!), but it is allowing me to complete my goal of one year of breast feeding.


It has precluded me from any promotions or raises or career furthering opportunities - but that was expected.


Now I am pregnant with #2, who is due when #1 is 15 months old.


I have requested from my company:

10 weeks paid maternity leave

3 months unpaid leave

followed by the same work at home arrangement as above.


Initially they have rejected the 3 months unpaid leave, so I am fighting this now.


I am also seriously considering my options, and realise I need to find a more managable long term solution to my working arrangement. But at the same time still be able to pay the rent!


I will stay with my current company as long as they can accomodate my needs. But at the same time, I know that they can't do that forever... and if they reject my request for 3 months unpaid leave, I will be either fired for forced to quit.


So I am again thinking of alternatives.

Of course, having an under one year old, and being pregnant is not the best time for a career change! Or to start my own business.

But it is a great time to do research and set things up.


So here I am, researching and thinking... and looking to you all for inspiration and ideas :)

CRJ -

maybe company will say yes - after their initial rejection - after all, they know what a super star you are and what a valuable employee you are.


Otherwise = at home business. I would say something having to do with babies and child rearing. you've researched a lot, studied alot and know a lot of products -what do you think you can bring to HK that isn't here already?

a friend of mine (with a 11 month old kid) is planning to start a business in babywear, so there you go!


alternatively, does your hubby's new business interest you? if yes, have you considered the possibility of becoming his business partner and allow you to work from home?


that is the likely route i will be taking. i don't want to go back to work in an office but i have been feeling guilty about not contributing financially. my hubby is in the process of starting his own business to be up and running by jan 07. he wants me to be a part of it in the area of business development and administration. as it is a very small independently consultancy, the amount of work required of me is not much and most importantly, allow me to work from home.


admittedly, it is not a business area that i have interest (hubby's the expert) in but hubby figured (and i do agree) that it can only do me good because:

1) i can earn money of my own again!

2) i can still stay home and be main caregiver to baby

3) i can continue to develop career-wise, very useful if i ever decide to go back to work when baby(s) are bigger.


you know, i always had my own business idea but that one will probably not bring home enough money. so i will very likely support my hubby in his business venture and gain enough savins/experience to run my own in the future!

Thanks HKCC, Cara and Wheelymate!


The support/encouragement is appreciated - as are any ideas!!


WM - Husband's business is not a 'one man show' it is actually a company he is a partner in. So no role for me there. I think it is great if you can help your husband using your skills - it will keep you up to speed and contribute to the income!

been thinking the same thing, cara. : )

crj: you have always been very eager to share information found online about baby rearing and all...how about a HK-based website on parenthood like the UK based mumsnet? you know musmnet was started by mums too! unless there is something similar in HK already!


cara: if his business has been well established for 2.5 years, will banks considering loaning the money?

Cara - Is it 1-2M Hong Kong dollars? If so, and if your business is really that viable as it sounds, try for the loan! That's not too much money...certainly not in the eyes of a bank. Have you done the calculations to figure how long it would take you to generate the revenue to pay your business costs and repay the loan? Enough profit? As you know, most new businesses...perhaps all...are in the red for a few years before turning profitable. If with the loan you can serve more clients and generate the rev, do it!!!!! (Exciting!)

Cara - I second the above, you should at least talk to a bank to find out what the options and requirements are.


You should also talk to people who might want to be private investors for an equity stake.


It can't hurt to just talk, and see what the options are - it sounds very promising.

What wonderful and moving posts from such wonderful women. I am in the same boat as you all SAH moms, but never could express myself so clearly or answer my parents, why my 'education' is not being 'used'. I applaud your convictions and your beliefs.

some further work-at-home ideas over there:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=408762

Mamouna - you said above you had started your own business - so, was it worth it?


great link - thanks!

I have been reading this forum and am really impressed by all the ideas and courages that all of you have. I am a mum of two boys (one 4 and a half, one almost 2), and I was a full-time mum for the first 3 years. Going back to work has always been my goal, and I got the chance a year ago, which initially I thought "great! I can be what I used to." But I have to say, since I become a mum, the mind set has totally changed. I really can't work 12-14 hours a day anymore because I want to be home early for the boys, and I don't want to work during festive seasons because it should be the time with the family. I have just resigned from my current job, and decided to take some courses, get the qualifications, and plan to run some kids programs which can allow me to schedule my time around the boys. I agree it is important to get the brain moving all the time, so I am trying to do things which I don't need to sacrifice the precious time with the kids.

hi joshmomm,

thanks for the info on the website. Do you need to have a teaching background for this course? I'm not a teacher nor in any related field, is it still possible to participant in the ICI program?

Crj,

I do believe it will be worth it (still a bit soon.. give me 6 more months!)

but its kind of tricky at first.. you do set up your own business to be able to work around your kids' schedule but right now I still need to work double so definitely I am less with my children than if I had only a regular 'employee-job'..

but I'll send you an email..

WOW ! I wondered how I came to miss this thread...


Well... as a WAHM, maybe I can give my testimony.


Before that, I was a consultant in France. That meant that I had to go where the client were, which for some reasons was never in the same city I was living ;S So I was not at home most of the time.


When I became pregnant, and we came to HK, at first, we made the choice to down size our living for a while and for me to take a break in my career and be a stay at home mum... as it worked out, quite fast actually, I came up with the idea of Nappypooh.com. At that time, nothing existed, not even Doubibou.


To make the story short, the idea was for me to continue to stay at home and still being able to contribute to the family income...


So now as a work-at-home mum, I'd like to say that it is true that working at home allow you the freedom of organizing your own hours around your baby schedule. however, if you are working alone, be aware that you'll be working a lot to start your business... As I also don't have a helper, I take care of my baby alone, and most of you must know how time consuming that is already. It also means that I'd be working on Nappypooh while LO is sleeping so I can tell you one thing for sure: if I'm sleep-deprived, that's certainly not because of my LO...


Also if you had a high power jobs, which most of the time means high salary, don't expect to compensate it with your new job, or at least not before some time. And of course, never forget that you can also loose some money in this venture... we don't always win. That would just be too easy!


Now, well, if any of you have any questions, don't hesitate to email me ;-)

another thing, for my part 'entrepeneurship' was my major at school and the business was set up with my hubby which does help a lot!

Hi Nappypooh, just had a browsing through your website, why are you clsoing down the business?


Hi joshmomm,

will send you a PM for some more info.


Thanks!!