When do you start to discipline your baby? And how?

Posted by AYM 20 yrs ago

Hi moms and dads,

I really need to hear from you. My 9-month old daughter cries a lot especially when me or our helper is not around and she would love to be carried(i.e. she is really attached to us). She has just started to teeth but this doesn't seem to be the problem since she loves to cry since she was 2 months old. She sleeps with our helper at night.

She tends to cry for no reason esp. when she sees unfamiliar/rare faces. My husband and I got into a serious argument about this. I was told that a 9-month old baby becomes anxious seeing strangers. My husband thinks that it is time to discipline her and wait no longer. In doing so last night, he put her on the bed surrounded by three pillows in the relatively dark room alone and let her cried for minutes while I was in the kitchen. As I checked her out, my heart almost jumped out as she was on the edge of falling onto the hardwood floor. She was sweating and started to throw up milk when I picked her up. I was absolutely furious. So as you can imagine, we started to get into a MAJOR argument....

Please share your opinion/experience. Or if you have any child psychologist or specialist whom we can consult, please tell me their names. Thanks in advance.

dimac4 20 yrs ago

You need to start doing something now - she is controlling your life rather than you controlling hers.

I currently am teaching a 3 year old who will not seperate from her mother for any length of time - if so she forces herself to throw up and really tries it on. This is becasue the mother has continually allowed the child to control the family (youngest of 4 girls with a 7 year difference between 3-4 - so is totally spoilt by 5 people - not just one.)

You need to figure out a gentle way of easing your baby into the behaviour you want - read books, ask others, watch super nanny (loads of good examples there). Earlier the better.

mrsl 20 yrs ago

I'm not sure that this is a discipline issue. Sounds like your daughter is just very clingy. Sure, it's good to get her used to strangers (to a degree, some stranger anxiety is a good thing), but she is naturally happier with you. It's a good thing that she is so good with your helper, at least she knows who she can trust, you just have to extend that circle slowly and gently.

I agree with you, I could not put her in a dark room at this stage as punishment and certainly not on a bed (at least use her cot). How is she on playdates etc.? Do you take her to playgroups or classes? Have you tried stepping away for a minute or two at a time and then extending it?

My daughter was very clingy and did not want to be with anyone but me. I got a very hard time from grandparents over it. Luckily my husband was very supportive, he just felt for me that I got no time to myself. I know that he would have liked to have had a bit more 'us' time, but we worked around it, while she was sleeping etc.

I took the view that making her happy was 'my job'. I had given up work and actually wanted to appreciate the time and the fact that she wanted to be with me. Most of their lives, children do not want to be anywhere near their parents, will be ashamed of your hugs etc. so I think this is a time to treasure.

Make her feel secure, let her know that you are there for her and slowly move away for longer and longer periods of time. My daughter was the clingiest little girl in the world and by giving into it she has become a very confident and independant 4 year old. Sure, I could have gone to work, been out for lunch, facials etc., but I have the rest of my life to do that.

You need to build up her confidence to be without you/helper by the time that she goes to nursery school, but she is only 9 months old. You have plenty of time and do not need to use shock tactics. You do need to agree a plan with your husband though, otherwise you will continue to argue about it. You do not want to let your daughter manipulate you, but this sounds like neediness rather than manipulation. You can build up her confidence gently so that she knows that you always come back and that she can have fun with other people. Good luck!

hkchoichoi 20 yrs ago

I think the word "discipline" is misused in your context. I think what you want your child to do is LEARN how to be with other people aside from you - not DISCIPLINE her so that she does so. Nine months is a hard time for babies as they are beginning to understand the world and separation from the ones they love is hard.

My first daughter liked to be carried a lot too - I tried to wean her from it by playing with her (without carrying her) from six months. Sit her down, and play with her, so I'm maintaining lots of eye contact with her, but not necessarily taking her everywhere I went. Also, making sure you have lots of quality time with her and allowing her to "soak" up your love - and then giving her opportunites to be away from you. Stranger anxiety is normal (apparently I was also a holy terror - I threw up on everyone who wasn't my mother and screamed bloody murder until someone picked me up) and being patient with your daugther is important. Slow, small steps I think are the key here. Allow her to spend time with other people, while you are there, helping to build her trust. She will slowly learn to be around other people and eventually trust them. (not overnight, and not immediately, but slowly.) As MrsL said, slow confidence building is important - not suddenly shocking her.

AYM 20 yrs ago

Thank you for the replies.

dimac4, what you said was exactly what my husband said the other night. He would be happy to know that someone thinks alike.

mrsl, I do go away each day for several hours. Clingy doesn't seem to be the real issue here. It didn't sound like your daughter cried a lot when she was young, right? I do like to hold my daughter because I love to. Although I know that I need to limit myself so as not to spoil her. I think she probably needs to meet more people as I haven't send her to any classes/playgroup although she does have other babies/people to play with quite regularly.

my doggie, it's good to hear that you and I think alike.

hkchoichoi, well, my husband would not agree with the word "discipline" which I used either. He was trying to "teach" her the other night which I consider "discipline" and that was why I used it in my thread. Of course, as a 9-month old, my daughter has time to sit, play, crawl during the day and she isn't being carried ALL the time. Perhaps I need to take her out more often.

I forgot to mention, whenever she wakes up, she cries immediately. If her diaper is wet or when she needs to drink milk, even worse. She must be fed right away before the diaper is changed. Well, hunger and uncomfort are two primary reasons why a baby cries. She has always been like this since she was probably two months old. I suppose this is her character but again, my husband doesn't agree and thinks that this has to change by teaching her.

Maybe a separate issue here but how can I teach her not to cry when she is hungry or the diaper is wet? Aren't these the signals she is trying to give us so that we can do something? Any advice?

By the way, my daughter cries VERY loud.

pzam 20 yrs ago

I agree with previous posters, at 9 months I don't think your daughter understands discipline yet. You are right about stranger anxiety. Maybe you can let your husband read the baby development books you have so he has an idea on what to expect. My 2 year old daughter still has stranger anxiety (which I like as I'm scared of her being too friendly with strangers). It takes her a while to warm up to family members who she doesn't see often, but when she see me interact with them, then she's ok. Slowly expose her to other people/kids. Playgroups are a good idea. Its not going to go away in a day so hang in there.

hkchoichoi 20 yrs ago

AYM -

Signing is great! I did it with my daughter - at around 1 year she could sign close to 40 things...and it made it a LOT easier...I think she definitely cried a lot less after she could tell me what was on her mind. Some key ones she learned were "milk" (for my breastmilk), "diaper", and "more." We could also communicate a lot more - which made our moments together a lot more fulfilling and a bit less frustrating...

The pioneers of baby signs are Linda Acredolo and Susan Goodwyn who have a book called "Baby Signs." They also have a lot of research which shows that babies who sign have a higher IQ at age 2 and also a more extensive vocabular - at age 12 the gap between those kids who signed and those who didn't is statistically significant. My daughter is now 2 and she still signs when she wants something. It prevents a lot of the 2 year old tantrum meltdowns...

mrsl 20 yrs ago

AYM, oh she cried!!! Thought they could hear her on the next street. Sometimes, when I had only gone as far as the bathroom.

You are lucky though that your daughter is so comfortable with your helper. You are probably right; playgroups, baby music classes etc. might help.

As the other posters said, crying is the only form of communication a 9 month old has. At leats you know when to change a nappy etc. (should be relatively easy to potty train if she hates being wet). Singing is a great idea, I never did it with my daughter because she spoke so early, but should probably do it with my son.

dimac4 20 yrs ago

AYM and others- I don't wish to come across as the wicked mother from the east - however my first baby had a big problem with this, as I had more and more children, the children were not able to controll what was going on - otherwise life would have been complete chaos - not just a bit chaotic. As parents we have to control our lives as best we can to manage, if this means tough love sometimes - then what is required. My own husband believes I am too soft on our kids - (now much older) as they continually try to pull one over me - I have to keep asking myself "Who is the boss" "Who is the one in control here?" And stick to my guns.

9 months is too young for discipline (your word) - but as I said you need to start thinking about it now - not later, on what behaviour you want from her and work toward it. Manage it.

AYM 20 yrs ago

my doggie,

Thank you for mentioning "Baby Signing" although I've not heard of it before. It sounds like a very interesting and amazing concept. hkchoichoi said that it's great too so perhaps I'll explore it later.

dimac4,

I recall from reading other threads that you're a mother of four children. You're no doubt much more experienced than me and some of us here. I value your comments and will certainly take time to think about it.

My husband asked me to post this thread and I've asked him to read it himself later. Anything else he should know or consider?

Wheelymate 20 yrs ago

Hi there, I'm in no position to advise as my little one is only 3 months old. But I am v curious about baby signs - is the book "baby signs" a good book to buy?

AYM: Take heart, I imagine it must be tough...I was HORRIBLE AS A BABY and terribly clingy to my mom even though she wasn't even the main caregiver - my mom said there was an incident at 7 months when I cried the whole day that my dad and aunt had to take me to the hospital (where she worked as a nurse) and I stopped the second I saw her.

AYM 20 yrs ago

Wheelymate,

I just can't imagine what my daughter will look like if she would cry for the whole day. She was sweating, the whole face was red and started to throw up milk even after mins. Well, you must have scared your dad and aunt to death back then.

hkchoichoi 20 yrs ago

Wheelymate -

Baby signs is a great "starter" book. You can pretty much babysign with your baby off of the book by Acredolo and Goodwyn. They lay out the research and give you the methods they need for you to do the signing. I started with my daughter at around 6 months and at month 8 she signed her first thing back to me - "moon." She's now 2 and still uses some signs as she's bilingual and speaking one or the other language is a bit difficult for her. I feel like it definitely cuts down on a lot of frustration between the two of us. There is also a greater communication link between us because we were talking to each other from a much younger age. While we read stories together she could tell me what she noticed on the page -the flower, the dog, the moon, the lights...she signed all of them to me while reading...it was amazing...

Highly recommend the experience!

Katetam 20 yrs ago

Really interesting discussion.... I just want to add " Discipline" might not be the right word....at this stage, but proper "reinforcement" may be what one is looking for. It is SO true, if every time the baby cried, you run to her, and pick her up right away, she learns. She wakes up, sees no one, CRIES! She wants attention, she cries! She is hungry, wet, too hot, too cold, or just bored, CRIES!!! I am not saying LET the baby cry, cuz I can't do it either. I do let the baby cry for about 2 minutes sometimes before running to him if I know he's NOT wet, he's NOT hungry, and he's SAFE in his crib. Then I walk towards the crib and say "Hi !" He will keep crying at first, then start wailing his arms and kicking his legs saying "PICK ME UP NOW!".... but I don't. Then he started learning, eventually, he learned to wake up, and just babble, and after a LONG time, if no one pays attention to him, then he starts whimpering, and then escalates to crying.

I think just don't JUMP to your feet each time your baby starts crying.

My elder one, who is now 2 and half, used to use "throwing up" her milk as a "weapon". At about 9 months to 1 year old, each time I wanted her to fall asleep on her own, she would start crying, I would stay in her room, not holding her though, and then she will cry and cry, and start throwing up, or "choking" up the milk..... and I would be scared of her and I give in.

Took a long time for me to learn, let her throw up, I just used the mop (kept in her room)clean it up, and continued to let her cry. She learned

in 1 week's time, no more crying, screaming, tantrums, throwing up...... after that dreadful week.

I am just wondering, if your baby has been crying since 2 months of age, then there must be a problem.... as someone else posted, "crying" is her only way of communication to you, perhaps she's not feeling well..... b/c my baby was totally cranky, crying, upset... for no reason..... (or so I thought), but it turns out the milk formula that I was giving him was not the right one. He wasn't ill, or sick from it, just not feeling "100%" good though. Now, we switched formula, and the bottles.... less gas, less colic, he's much happier, hardly fusses (touch wood), just when he's hungry or sleepy.

Snow Rose 20 yrs ago

I would like to strongly recommend Penelope Leach's book entitled "Your baby and Child". If you can get your hubby to read the section on older babies (6-12 months) he'll be more clued up as to what's going on in the mind of a baby your daughter's age and what is more appropriate for her.

As for me, I believe using the wrong method on a child can greatly exacerbate the problem. If your child is clinging to you and you take the firm approach and still put her down / leave the room, you are not responding to her needs. And of course she knows that.

When my first son went through his clingy phase I just let him have as much attention as he wanted. I was so careful never to push him away. After a couple of months he just lost interest in being clingy and went off to play by himself.

I guess a child psychologist would say that he was reassured and knew that I was always there for him, waiting in the background, on hand in case he needed me and this gave him the confidence to go off on his own.

If you baby is always wanting to be held at home, my own opinion is - do it! All too soon she won't want to be held by you. I myself am dreading my sons one day saying "Get off, Mummy".

It sounds like your baby cries quite a lot. I can tell you, we carried / held my first baby almost all day every day before he could walk. Me, my helper and my hubby used to take turns. My husband's parents came and took turns. Some babies just need to be held all the time. That's just the way they are - their personality. My second son is different.

BTW, just FYI - my 2 boys almost never cry. People are always saying how happy they are and how they never cry. Even as babies they didn't. When I went to my see my eldest boy's pre-school teacher recently she said "Gosh, this little boy is SO HAPPY and he's ALWAYS like it."

Don't be afraid to respond to your baby's individual needs. Always remember - you can't spoil a 9-month-old. And anyway, holding and cuddling and carrying your baby a lot does not consitute spoiling. It just means you're an affectionate parent.

For further advice, I'd strongly recommend health visitor Yvonne Heavyside, 25 years of experience & 3 children of her own. Tel: 2530 1905. She's really fab, she'll help you out!

cd 20 yrs ago

To snow rose, totally agree, I have five and they all got held and cuddled as much as they wanted. They are all very happy, independant (not the disabled one, although he is very happy) kids now.

HKC 20 yrs ago

I am sorry but I had to respond to Woodys reply, I always respond to my babies cry and I am rewarded with a happy, secure baby. Like Snow Rose, people are always commenting on how happy she is. A 9 month old baby is going through the clingy stage, it won't last long, just respond to it, disciplining a baby who won't understand what she is being disciplined for is crazy and detrimental.

bw 20 yrs ago

From the posts above, it would seem like I've spoilt my kid rotten. I always responded to his crying immediately, always picked him up. He howled when he saw strangers and later at around 1 year of age wanted nothing to do with people ! Isn't 9 months too young to be teaching him/her not to cry !? How else does a baby communicate ? My son is now 4 years old, when it was time to leave him at preschool he took 3 weeks to settle but since then there's no looking back. The teachers have said exactly the same thing snowrose and hkchochois' have said. My son is a pleasure to have at school, he's confident, always happy and a joy to be around ! I must have done something right.

Dora the Explorer 20 yrs ago

Thanks to bw, joshmomm, snow rose, mrsl etc for your posts. I was beginning to think that showing affection to your children was the lastest thing to become 'unfashionable' and that we should all be raising little soldiers. cd is, as always, an inspiration and proof that having a number of children is no excuse for not treating them as individuals and giving them everything you've got.

Of course if you do not respond to their crying they will stop. All you are teaching them is that you are not there for them, what a horrible life lesson to learn at 9 months!

As mrsl and snow rose say, children all too quickly will not be seen dead hugging and wanting to be with their parents, why on earth can we not treasure the time that they want us instead of trying to get them to depend on themselves way too soon?

Kwis 20 yrs ago

I'm in the same camp with those who 'prescribe' lots of loving attention and totally agree with joshmomm about advance preparation. It might help ease the anxiety a bit if you tell her that she will be meeting "so-and-so, who is Mummy's best friend, etc." Then act like it's a great thing to look forward to. Don't force it if she doesn't want to 'say' hi or be held by the other person... If she cries, speak to her in a low, calming voice explaining that there is nothing to be scared of, etc. They usually calm down if you yourself are calm about the situation. We feel that this has helped us avoid a lot of potential meltdowns with our LO.

I also highly recommend giving baby signing a go. If your LO can have a way to tell you what's bothering her, it's half the problem solved. It's pretty frustrating not being able to communicate and the only way she knows how (right now) is by crying. That's really tough for the LO. Good luck, AYM --and know that this, too, shall pass. :-)

AYM 20 yrs ago

Sorry, everyone. I've been away for the whole day but am surprised as well as happy to see a lot of replies here. It'll take me a while to read all these. But looks like there are a few very tough moms here like Katetam and woody. I don't know I can do what you could.

Last night, my daughter slept in the crib with my helper in the same room. She woke up this morning without crying but played by herself while still in the crib. This may seem nothing to many of you. But to me, this is a good start for her. I'll see what happen tomorrow morning.

Katetam 20 yrs ago

Wait a minute, I don't think Woody or I ever said we don't cuddle or hug or give lovable attention to our children ?

The point was AYM said ever since 2 months of age, your baby cries until now for no apparent reason... ! So, our point was proper "reinforcement" was in need...... If the baby is controlling your every minute, I think that's not right. That doesn't make me an evil mom does it ?

I ALWAYS go to my baby's side immediately, but I don't PICK HIM up right away if he cries for no apparent reason)..... but I pick him when he wakes up from a nap, knowing he's hungry, or he's not feeling well from a cold, stuff nose, allergies, or immunizations... or a bad dream, or when I come home from work, I pick him up and hugs and kisses all over....

My baby is a happy jolly baby that has a great routine, I am very lucky. But I think it has to do with not only the temperament of the baby, but the parenting style definitely affects whether the baby is a "easy to care" one or a "HIGH MAINTENANCE" one. I learned from my mistakes with my first one, and I am improving on it. It seems to be working. I am less paranoid, less frantic, and less frustrated with the second baby.... which makes me ultimately, a happier and better mom!

Good luck to all those moms who thinks "proper reinforcement" makes us evil moms.

BTW, seeing unfamiliar faces usually will cause babies to cry, why it phases out later... well, the obvious reason is b/c the older they get, the more unfamiliar faces they have seen.... therefore, less frightening for them.

AYM 20 yrs ago

Katetam, don't get me wrong. I didn't mean to imply "tough" as being the "evil mom". In fact, I think this is what I'll need to learn slowly as you said. I was just amazed at what you could do.

mel 20 yrs ago

My daughter used to cry when she was away from me and refuse to go to anyone else. She is 15 months now and is attached to my maid and occasionally wont come to me. Sometimes maybe we should just enjoy out little babies and let them be, just love them and expose them to other people and things and let them experiance things at their own time. Because sometimes it breaks my heart when she doesn't want to come to me.

AYM 20 yrs ago

A lot of really good and helpful replies again. Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

My husband feels that I'm spoiling our daughter and that things need to change by "teaching" her - the earlier the better before it's too late. I suppose he understands now that what he did the other night was not exactly "teaching" but scaring her.

We agree that we need to come up with a plan which we both feel comfortable and agree on. But it's great to hear from so many experienced moms that holding/cuddling our baby is such a common and natural behaviour which I shouldn't feel that it's wrong. What can be wrong is when it is "too much" or when we respond too quickly to her cries perhaps. I've started to ask my helper not to pick her up immediately when she cries.

joshmomm, thank you for giving me the phone no. of Baby Signs HK. After hearing so many good feedbacks from moms here, I'll seriously consider taking this course as I'm really curious to know what this is all about.

Snow Rose, thank you for giving me the phone no. of Yvonne Heavyside. Do you know what her qualification is? Just curious.

AYM 20 yrs ago

A lot of really good and helpful replies again. Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

My husband feels that I'm spoiling our daughter and that things need to change by "teaching" her - the earlier the better before it's too late. I suppose he understands now that what he did the other night was not exactly "teaching" but scaring her.

We agree that we need to come up with a plan which we both feel comfortable and agree on. But it's great to hear from so many experienced moms that holding/cuddling our baby is such a common and natural behaviour which I shouldn't feel that it's wrong. What can be wrong is when it is "too much" or when we respond too quickly to her cries perhaps. I've started to ask my helper not to pick her up immediately when she cries.

joshmomm, thank you for giving me the phone no. of Baby Signs HK. After hearing so many good feedbacks from moms here, I'll seriously consider taking this course as I'm really curious to know what this is all about.

Snow Rose, thank you for giving me the phone no. of Yvonne Heavyside. Do you know what her qualification is? Just curious.

AYM 20 yrs ago

A lot of really good and helpful replies again. Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

My husband feels that I'm spoiling our daughter and that things need to change by "teaching" her - the earlier the better before it's too late. I suppose he understands now that what he did the other night was not exactly "teaching" but scaring her.

We agree that we need to come up with a plan which we both feel comfortable and agree on. But it's great to hear from so many experienced moms that holding/cuddling our baby is such a common and natural behaviour which I shouldn't feel that it's wrong. What can be wrong is when it is "too much" or when we respond too quickly to her cries perhaps. I've started to ask my helper not to pick her up immediately when she cries.

joshmomm, thank you for giving me the phone no. of Baby Signs HK. After hearing so many good feedbacks from moms here, I'll seriously consider taking this course as I'm really curious to know what this is all about.

Snow Rose, thank you for giving me the phone no. of Yvonne Heavyside. Do you know what her qualification is? Just curious.

AYM 20 yrs ago

Sorry for the repeated message, I pressed the keyboard more than once by mistake.

Snow Rose 20 yrs ago

Good question. According to her leaflet, Yvonne is a Regitered Nurse and she holds a Health Visiting Diploma, a District Nursing Certificate and a Family Planning Certificate. This is in addition to her BA. All qualifications are from the UK.

She is able to care for mums and babies up to 5 years of age.

AYM 20 yrs ago

Thanks again, Snow Rose. Also, I forgot to thank you for recommending Penelope Leach's book "Your baby and Child". I'll tell my husband about it. He will probably be quite interested to read it as he read more pregnancy books than me (I read NONE, I read only the magazines/websites) while I was pregnant.

MayC 20 yrs ago

My little girl sticks to me like a leech. She's okay whenever I'm not around but the minute I step into the door, she wants mummy to feed her, change her diaper, change her clothes, brush her teeth etc. She wants to sit on my lap to have her dinner!!! She sits quietly on her own chair prior to me being there. My husband's family keep scolding her but I just let her be. She wants me and I think that's okay. She's less clingy now compared to 3 months ago though - on her own. She used to cry whenever I had to leave for work. Now I tell her I have to go to work and she waves goodbye.

Katetam 20 yrs ago

There are kids who "grow" out of this "clingy" phase... when "toys, books, tv" becomes more interesting than holding on to mommy. However, there are children who never really outgrows this phase, eventually they are "forced" to grow out b/c of playgroups, pre-school, parties...etc.

AYM, you have a great attitude, and must be a great mom.... a caring, loving, and attentive mom that wants to improve your parenting style. Therefore, you will succeed. Good luck!

AYM 20 yrs ago

MayC, how old is your girl now?

Katetam, thank you for your encouragement. My husband and I know that our girl will grow up and be okay eventually. But as parents, we would want our girl to grow up with a good personality.

Primrose, I'm trying to spend time to play with (instead of just holding) my girl. I'll explore new ways to see if things will get better.

MayC 20 yrs ago

AYM, my little girl is now 21 months old.

This week was a hectic week for me and I didn't see much of her. I took her to China because I had work to do there. My inlaws and helper came along to help. My girl spent so much time with them that when we eventually came back to HK the day before yesterday, she was okay without me. She still preferred me most times but then yesterday she also started to say that she wanted to sit on ty ty's (aunty's) lap on the train and wanted ty ty to carry her on the train while she was falling asleep. It was a relief but at the same time I was crushed coz I wanted her to want me.

I know disciplining is important so if she starts hitting someone, she'll be in big trouble... but if she cries because she wants mummy or she plays up whenever I'm home, I can't help feeling that it's okay because she's showing her affection for me and I don't want to discourage it.

She goes to playgroup once a week now and I don't see any adverse effects at the moment. When she sees her teacher, initially she was afraid but a few weeks later, she's now sitting with her teachers in class instead of me.

She used to cry whenever she woke up from her sleep wanting me... I always attended to her and then I would say, "No need to cry, just say Mama and I'll come". So I got my husband to pretend to sleep, pretend to wake up and call Mama". Then I came running in and said, "See, you don't need to cry". In the end, she didn't cry. She now wakes up and calls me. If I don't hear it, she raises her tone, then when she sees me, she squeals in delight. I don't think she understood what we were doing at that time and I'm convinced it was more that she grew out of it - meaning once she mastered the power of speech and got confident saying mama out loud, she didn't need to cry.

I don't know, AYM... sometimes I watch Super Nanny and think, "I don't think I could ever do that"..... so I think most of us are somewhere in between.

I do hope that my little girl will grow up to have a good personality too. Well, we always say "thank you" at home even between my husband and I. Now my little girl has also followed suit - does it on her own automatically - and in her own language. She uses "ba-aa" for thank you. When we give her something, she says "ba-aa".

I'm not much help, am I? Sorry.....

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