Moving to HK and raising a family

Hi,


I lived in HK as a kid from '85 to '92 and loved it. I returned last year for my honeymoon and fell in love with it all over again. My husband and I are now trying to move there (from the UK).


Whilst he should be able to transfer to a HK office of his company - I am not so lucky. I think it would be quite hard for me to get work over there (I work for the UK Gov. organising market research). So my plans at the minute are to use my first few years in HK to start a family (it has to happen sometime!).


I'd be really interested in your thoughts - is HK a good place to raise a family? Is it (more) difficult to maintain a relationship over there (with the long working hours)? Is it possible to get a decent sized flat on a single (decent, but not extravagent) income? Will my cats be happy??!


Sorry for all the questions - I love hk and want to move back, but I'm worried I might be living in a fantasy.


Any advice, thoughts appreciated.


Jen

Hi Cara,


Thanks for your reply. I'm sure you're right about the impact of being so far from family - it's so hard to know what's best. In terms of salary - I don't know! My hubby is on about the equivilant of 480,000HKD now, but was told he should expect a pay cut (though I don't know how dramatic it would be). Would 480,000 be enough for a couple with a new baby? And is there much of a community for new mums? I'm worried I'd be stuck on my own, not knowing anyone.


thanks again,


Jen

I myslef think the life here in HK and china is very difficult for a family as most of us never see our husbands as for the long hours, its not for a family more for single people, even though its a great experience for myself and my 3 kids its bloody hard, feel like a single parent since living here, got 2yrs left and def will not be staying any longer.

Dear Jenifa


We moved here with our 2 children about 6 months ago. So far so good. I agree with most of Primrose's pros and cons, with a couple of exceptions.


We are like you in that my husband earns less here than he did in London. However, tax is much lower so that makes up for some of the differential. One of the reasons that we moved here was that my husband was excited by the opportunity of working with Chinese companies. He could not be happier.


For me, the motivation was bringing the children here. It is so much safer than London. I think that if they can become fluent in Mandarin, they will be at a huge advantage in years to come. Schools may be expensive by international standards but they are much cheaper than London (we were planning on going privately in London) and the sports facilities etc. are much better as most international primary schools share a campus with secondary schools.


Rent is, as stated above a HUGE expense. We pay double what our larger house in London rents out at to live in less space. We are lucky I guess because we do have grass (a small amount, but enough for the children to play on and for us to sit out, have a drink, watch the boats on the water etc.). I don't know whether your husband's company will be paying yours, but we have to pay our own rent(the old style expat packages are becomming less and less common).


I could not have found it easier to meet people here. Most expats are in the same boat as you, they remember moving here with no contacts etc. People give you their number at the drop of a hat and they expect you to use it! They invite you to bring your children around to play, to dinner, to join them at their clubs etc. soon after meeting you. My biggest fear coming here, I loved my life and friends in London and was afraid that I would be alone while my husband was travelling or our with work colleagues and my children had nursery and play groups etc. In actual fact I have found myself struggling to keep up with the invitations and find that my diary is chocca. It is true about the long hours (no change from London) and the travel. My husband is away more often than he is here, sometimes even at weekends, so the support of your friends is a major help. My children have played a major part in meeting people though, because you meet people at the nursery school, play group etc. If you are on your own, I have heard that you can always meet people at the YWCA or the American Women's Association (or something like that, and apparently it is not just Americans). If you are pregnant, you will meet people at the obstetrician's office, ante natal classes etc.


As far as cars are concerned, we thought they were actually really expensive compared to London. A new car is about 35% more expensive and new-ish second and cars are also relatively pricey. Sure as they get older, they get cheaper, but that was true at home too. It's a good thing though, at least it keeps pollution from traffic down. Our big mistake was not paying the import duty on our English car (the shipping would have been minimal as it would have fit in our container).


Most people think the helper changes their lives. I have not been overwhelmed by this aspect, partly perhaps because I chose the wrong one first time around (get lots of advice because coming here with western attitudes you can be very naive). Word of mouth recommendations are best. I had as much help as I wanted in London (part-time). I did not want anymore because I am a very hands on mother and only really wanted cleaning help and occassional babysitting. As Primrose says, you just make sure that your children stay grounded; treat your helper with respect, teach then to tidy up etc.


I cannot say that my children meet people of any different social background here than they did at home. Maybe it is because we were going down the private education route anyway. We are in our mid-thirties and most of our friends are relatively comfortable and successful by now, so we have always had a concern that they are not mixing with a real cross-section of people, but that is no more or less a problem here than it was living in a middle class suburb of London.


They do get to speak Chinese and to meet a wider cross-section of nationalities than they would have done at home. They are blind to race, which I see as a very good thing. There are very few African Americans here, but a wide mix of Asians and Westerners). They get to travel in Asia (I was not brave enough to deal with the long haul for short breaks before).


I must admit that I miss the aethetics of London. The historic buildings, the green spaces, the flowers, the smart streets. HK is (IMHO) not a pretty city centre. They have had no real planning or no regard for history (like in Singapore) and tend to tear beautiful old buildings down to replace them with ugly skyscrapers. There are aome impressive buildings (Bank of China for example), and the odd remaining older one, but generaly the rule seems to be build, build, build. There are, however some beautiful places to live and relax with wonderful sea views. The southside, Lantau, parts of the New Territories etc etc. The main thing that I will struggle to give up whenever we decide to leave is the clear view of the water when I wake up every morning and the drive past the beaches into Central etc. Places like Sai Kung, Shek O and so on are really stunning and the part of HK that the tourists (luckily) tend to know nothing about.


To me the MAJOR disadvantages are the rent (as mentioned above) and the air pollution. We live on the Southside and the air is not fantastic here, but when I meet my husband in Central is can be truly awful!!! We met friends in Midlevels recently and I could hardly see 50m ahead of me. There are some wonderful times such as Chinese New Year and Golden Week when the Chinese factories close down and you can see the horizon perfectly, it reminds you of how stunning HK could be.


Maybe we are in our honeymoon period still. Most people do say that the first three and the last three months are the most difficult though. I certainly have not regretted our move here, not for one minute. Flights are so cheap now that we have already been inundated with visitors (most of whom have already booked their second trips for later this year), so the children are not missing home or grandparents. They see them less frequently than they did in London, but for longer periods of time, so seem to build a stronger bond. We plan on being home for 5 or 6 weeks every summer to keep in touch with our English friends.


Hope that this helps. Good luck with your decision.

Hi Primrose, and Mrsl


Thank you both very much for your long replies - I really really appreciate getting honest views from people who are actually going through it all.


I think if Paul can get a decent enough salary (35k per month? assuming no expat package) we will come over, and I'll look into getting a TEFL certificate so I can do some part time work. We'd be living in NT to be near his office (Shatin) so rents shouldn't be as exorbitant as they are on the island. Shame though - I wanted my kids to go to Quarry Bay School like I did! :)


Best wishes,

Jen

Hi Jen, I would really push to try and get housing covered in your husband's salary if they are making him take a pay cut. Assuming you're talking about 35K HKD per month, to support 2 people & a new baby as well as rent (even in the NT where it is much cheaper) to be really honest I think you might find it a bit tough going. Rents have really gone up and schools/ kindergartens are expensive. Especially at first when you're making a new social circle, when you will probably have to go out or entertain a bit more than usual. And definitely do the TEFL before you arrive it will just give you more options for some extra cash.

Hi Primrose and Chiriqui,


Thanks for the advice - we'll try to get some kind of allowance if we can. Though I may delay the baby till we're out there and settled - I may have enough of a job settling the cats in! :)


Jen

Primrose,


dependents can work now.The law has been reverted. It was enforced in april , this year.

hi Jen, just wanted to add that we are in a similiar situation to the one you might be in: one salary (also 35K),two adults and a new baby due this summer. My husband will be the full-time carer then. Rent is extortionate and a third of my salary goes on that, but we do live on HK island - for sure, in the NT a bit further out but still an easy commute to shatin, like Sai Kung for example, would be a much cheaper rent and more fresh air !


I think you'd manage it fine. We certainly haven't saved as much as I'd hoped, of course, and are on a bit of a budget, but still get out lots and travel lots in Asia. It's all about compromise - by having one of us home, it's the best care situation possible I think, but of course means financially we are not well off. We're happy with that decision. For us, the tiny flat sizes, and pollution make it an easy decision to leave next year when baby will be a little older and wanting to run about. But as a place to stay for a few years, it's exciting, and great place to get around asia from. I agree with earlier posts - get your TEFL, teach part- or full-time, + enjoy yourself as a couple for a year or so to get the most out of your time. Good Luck !

Hi Layla and Caesar05,


Thanks very much for your replies - I'm feeling a bit more confident now. We don't have an extravagant lifestyle so it looks like we should be ok. though maybe not to save much (still - can't afford to do that in London either, so no change!)


Ceasar - Where abouts in NT are you living? I was thinking Sai Kung would be a good choice, though I've never been there.


Best wishes


Jen

Caesar05.


Surely HK$1,500 for food is weekly and not monthly cost?


Or am I spending too much for an adult and two children, as my monthly food cost is on average about HK$6,000 per month.

Ladies, what great posts! I am not new to HK (grew up here, then moved to England before returning 5 years ago) but I do think the descriptions of the transition from London to HK posted here are dead on.


Jen, of course it would be a good back up to get a TEFL qualification, but I think you will probably find that your skills are pretty transferable, especially at one of the multi-national companies here in HK. Have a look at www.classifiedpost.com.hk or www.jobsdb.com.hk to get an idea of what is available here. You may just find that you can earn just as much as your husband.


And as for starting a family, I am seven months pregnant now, and am really excited to be having a baby in Hong Kong instead of London. I was back in London recently and it was hard enough getting around as a pregnant woman, let alone those poor moms I saw trying to bump their prams up and down the stairs on the tube. Transportation in Hong Kong is cheap and extremely efficient. Taxi meters start at around one pound, the underground service is clean, spacious and air-conditioned.


The size of the city also means that you can get from town to real countryside in half-an-hour – the time it would take to travel two miles on a London bus! This makes living in a small apartment easier to handle. You miss the garden less if you can get to the beach so easily (and although the weather in the UK is lovely now, think about how many months in the year you can actually enjoy the outdoors with small children!)


Most goods and services (including baby products!) are cheaper in Hong Kong. Grocery shopping can be as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. (Kat8 – I know people who spend $1,500 a week and $1,500 a month!!). Fresh fruit and veg are cheap and plentiful at the wet markets and you can even get organic products delivered to your doorstep now.


The difference I appreciate most is that I find Hong Kong people extremely protective of children, pregnant women and the elderly. I didn’t get offered a single seat on the tube in London, whereas I am regularly invited to jump the taxi queues here.



Jen, of course it would be good to get a TEFL as a back-up, but I think you will probaly find that your skills are pretty transferable, especially at one of the multi-national companies here in HK. Have a look at www.classifiedpost.com.hk or www.jobsdb.com.hk to get an idea of what is available here.


And as for starting a family here, I am seven months pregnant now, and am really excited to be having a baby in Hong Kong as opposed to London where my husband is from.

Hi, Jen

I am a HK local guy and can tell you more of the local situation.

$35K per month is well enough for a good living but you should have no car. (It at least takes you $7000/month car depreciation+insurance+cr park)So, forget it.

The proportion of expense is approximately similar as what Casear05 said. Generally, rent in diff. locations are in the descending order as follows: HK>Kowloon>NT>Lautau

When you think where to live, I strongly recommend you to consider both location, traffic expense, no. of people to work and traffic expense as a whole. For example, you have only one guy to work in, say HK Island, I suggest you to live in those new residential towers next to Tung Chung MTR @5000-6000 all inclusive, (800 sq.ft), of which the clubhouse has swimming pools courts and 29 facilities. The trade off is its high travelling expense (about $21/trip to Central, but only take 24 min.) Another choice is Tseung Kwan O district, 25 min. to Central (formerly called Junk Bay).

If two guys go to work, I suggest you to live around any MTR or KCR stations (your underground in the UK). I myself live on a Kowloon MTR station. I am very happy to go everytime on time and in reasonable fee.

In view of living in the Island, the living quality is very poor in old districts (but still not cheap) and very expensive in the southern district and the mid-level. Except each minute costs you some hundred dollars, it is suggested to live in Kowloon rather than HK Island (The MTR only takes me 15-20 min. to the Central District, it is ok for me!)

Eating outside: very expensive for high class western food ($300 and more per head) but can be very economic if you know the way ($20-30 per head). Nevertheless, that will not cause any problem to you.

Personal tax: % varied based on diff. increments. In your case, I think the rate is less than 10%. You can check Inland Revenue Dept. (http://www.ird.gov.hk) sthg!

Children education: If the baby is born in HK, it can take the local education till the secondary school stage for free.

Of course, one advantage of living in HK is the cheap price to tour the South East Asia.

I hope the info. will be helpful to you.


Tom

Hi Tom


Thanks very much for your reply. My husband would be based in Shatin, so we will look around there - and hopefully the rent should be ok. *definitely* not getting a car though.


Great news about tax though - I knew it was lower, I didn't realise it was that low...


Thanks


Jen

Shatin is not expensive, but it all depends what size of flat you wanna live, defo not like london. But all i can say about london ...EXPENSIVE!!!