Babies less than 10% - experiences and worries | Hong Kong Forums | Advice for Expats in HK

Posted by crj 20 yrs ago

Hi

Our baby was 3.5 kilos (7 lbs 11 oz) when born, which is a healthy 50%.

But he quickly dropped to the 10%, and stayed there.

Then towards late in the 4th month / early in the 5th month, he dropped below the 10%, and has never gotten back up.

We are now at 8 months, and still below 10% at 7 kilos (he only just doubled his birth weight)

We are using the new WHO breast fed baby charts, we have a doctor and midwife who are very pro breast feeding and monitoring the situation closely.

Baby is super super active - he has been crawling since 6 months or so, standing up supported since about the same time - anything he can crawl to to then hold and stand is his goal! Even when he sits on his legs, he bounces up an down. As a result, he burns calories like crazy.

My husband and his family are tall and thin, but his brother's baby was not skinny like ours (and he was breast fed for one year)

He eats three solis meals a day, about 175-200 mlor more per meal, and most of the time loves eating.

He seems happy and smiley.

Issues that we have to deal with:

We are still on 6 breast feeds a day, including a 10pm. Midwife says we cannot drop the 10pm until his weight is up.

We are constantly paranoid about him not getting enough milk and enough food.

We focus on high calorie foods like avocados, and add tofu to one meal a day for extra protein.

He does not take bottles well, so if I have to go to a work meeting, even though he gets a bottle of expressed breast milk, he does not drink much (only about 100 - 150ml)

Even though he seems happy and bright, if he does not eat much one day he seems to get black circles under his eyes.

We are doing everything we can - extra breast feeds when possible, lots of high calorie solids.

But I am so worried all the time, that we are damaging him somehow, that we are raising a runt, that we should be doing something else...

Is anyone else also dealing with a baby like this?

I know it is not such a serious problem, but it keeps me worried. It will be interesting to learn if anyone else is in the same situation.

fel 20 yrs ago

Hi,

I had the same concern for my elder daughter. She was born at a healthy weight of 3.25kg, and subsequent months, her weight gain was not very ideal and drop to 10-20 percentile range. Just like you, we were very concerned as well, I started feeding her solid when she is 5 mth old, and made sure that she is well-fed on solid food. (Cos i was still direct breastfeeding, so don know how much milk she is consuming at one time) That why, i got to monitor her solid intake, and make sure she is eating enough. i remember those days, i fed her so much solid, that she threw up sometimes....due to overfeeding. With all these effort, still it doesnt help much in her weight gain. Now she is 2.5 yr old, her weight is around 25 percentile...which is better than the earlier days (btw 10 percentile only). I think the slight weight gain is due to the formula milk that she started when she turn 2 yrs old and also she is not as fussy about food. But i think she will remain the slim category, just like her dad.

So don worry too much, so long as yr baby is healthy and active.

crj 20 yrs ago

Fel - thank you so much.

Did your daughter fall in the height percentile too?

oj 20 yrs ago

Both my daughters have been 10% or below but are incredibly healthy, active and bright, however were both born at good weights and lengths.

My 6 year old wears clothes for 4 year olds and my 4 year old still wears skirt for any age between 12 months and 2 years. 6 year old now measures 110cm and my 4 year old measures in at 86cm.

So, don't worry as long as they are healthy and when the time comes, can do the majority of things they should be doing at that age, just relax and thank your lucky stars that you have a perfect, healthy and PETITE child.

crj 20 yrs ago

oj - thanks.

I just want to be sure I am doing everything I can - is my obsession with breast feeding damaging my child? Am I taking what could be a normal size healthy boy and turning him into a runt because I don't give formula or don't feed enough? Am I damaging his brain by not feeding it enough to develop properly?

oj 20 yrs ago

I think breast feeding can overrun mothers, particularly if it's your first.

I would try putting him on lunchtime solids, if he's not already and the do breakfast and lunch on solids. Also get him on to more formula, as that may have the nutrients he needs now more than your breast milk.

I am NOT a midwife but a mother of two who speaks from experience, don't let breastfeeding over run you, i breastfed mine until they were 6 months and then put them on 4 formula feeds a day and intriduced solid feeding as outlined above.

Don't worry and stop stressing out about because your baby will be the one to suffer and NO you are not raising a runt, remember that your chidlren are individuals and should not be compared, again be thankful that they are two completely different little individuals with their own different personalities.

crj 20 yrs ago

Thanks Oj

(did my husband tell you to tell me not to stress?)

We do 6 x Bf per day and 3 x solids per day.

He doesn't like the bottle much.

Midwife suggested not to go on formula until all milk in freezer is gone and I can't express enough for a necessary bottle (when I have work meetings).

To be honest, without the growth charts, I would think he is fine - except the occassional black cirlces when he doesn't eat well on a day (he just doesn't have a fat supply to allow him to miss a meal).

Actually, I used to be a super confident mummy who just thought her baby was an efficient eater and had thin genes. But then I took him to a well known hospital clinic for a weighing when he turned 5 months.

The midwife there told me he was underweight and if I didn't start solids the next day I was risking brain damage. I said my husband is coming back from a business trip in 3 days, can I wait? And she said no repeating the brain damage sentence. So we started solids and my confidence was completely eroded. That was 3 months ago and I still havent' fully recovered.

Our regular midwife said she saw me go from confident to nervous. My husband brought baby back to same clinic for a second weighing and he told off the midwife.

She has recently moved from HK to Singapore, but I won't go back there, we just stick to our regular midwife.

So that is the story of my confidence and stress...

oj and fel thank you so much, it helps to know that baby will survive - and so will I!

oj 20 yrs ago

Oh they survive alright and are tough cookies, i am currently being beaten up by two and boy are they strong!

So once again, STOP STRESSING and get on with being that super confident Mum you used to be, middwives are not always right, trust your instincts and gut feelings.

asking 20 yrs ago

I sooo know what you mean crj (I think that I have shared my similar experiences with you in the past). My little one still continues to worry me. She is now feeding for approx 5 mins (thats 5 minutes only!!!!!) per feed (I am feeding 4hrly) She does not look for food any earlier and 9 out of 10 never makes hunger signals.

I have started baby rice but to be honest Im thinking if she has no appetite for the milk why would she want the baby rice??!

We tried re-into feeding by bottle at the weekend - she was having none of it.

BF is really wearing me down now (every feed a battle of sorts). I was thinking if she would take a bottle I could feed her myself morning and evening and give formula during the day (or expressed BM).

She is around the 10% at the mo and like your LO if you didnt see the scales youd think everything was ok. She is bright, active, alert and a happy little soul - so why am I worrying??! Well when she 'used' to take a bottle at 11pm it took her 10 mins of vigourous sucking to take 60mls (yes I know she is older now and might take more in that time) but I cant help thinking that in 5 mins she must be getting less than 100mls.

The last two weeks she has only gained approx 40g a week.

Question for you....with the solids, is your LO ok eating the blander veg food after eating the avocado? I am worried about introducing that incase it puts her off eating her veggies since Ive heard it has quite a strong flavour.

hkchoichoi 20 yrs ago

CRJ -

I talked to my doc about this as my second daughter, born premature, in NICU for a week and all sorts of stuff - was worried about her progress. Formula is all the rage in Seoul - you'd be hard pressed to find a breastfeeding mom while walking down the street. At her last appointment I was in a room of about 35 moms, 35 babies ranging from 4 weeks old to a year - and most of them were formula fed. I heard conversations (bragging really) about how much milk their child takes down and how they always want "more" and just how their breasts aren't enough to satisfy their kids so that they have to use formula.

After hearing this for the 45 minutes I waited for my doc, I got really really insecure. After all, although my baby has gone up in percentage (now 45 %) she's not in the same percentile range as my first daughter (90%). I started questioning all that I had done in terms of breastfeeding and freaked out. When my appointment time came I went in and asked my doctor if I should supplement. She was REALLY surprised to hear that since I was so pro breastfeeding and all - and so asked me why. I just asked if I gave my baby formula would my daughter grow faster and bigger and get at least average instead of below average. She assured me that it was most likely not going to happen by switching to formula. Furthermore, she says the rise in incidence of overly obese formula fed babies is increasingly on the rise and the emphasis on having "big babies" is causing a spike in later childhood obesity.

Her take was that if the baby was happy, healthy, eating, pooping well - then the rest is not much to worry about. The charts are guidelines, but they are only guidelines and that for sure breastfeeding is the best (that is if you can do it and don't mind doing it - this is not to make formula feeding mums feel guilty at at all). You are talking to your doc and midwife who are supportive of your decision to feed, and so I think that you are getting a lot of support to continue on. Babies tend to trend after both of the parents - your husband is lean you said, so your son will be lean too. It sounds as if he is a total bundle of energy - my daughter can't crawl yet (sort of grunts and "supermans" but no movement forward) so i'm not wondering when that will start and how much lower she'll drop in the percentile range.

Just as a note as well - my elder daughter is now below 50% (after being 90% for her entire first year) and she eats well, drinks lots of milk and she's just smaller and leaner. I've just come to accept it. Most people say she looks incredibly healthy and fit. I think that's more important than having a bigger kid.

Also for asking - I offered avocado first to my baby, and then went back to winter squash and also sweet potato. Baby liked them all - no problem switching back and forth between the veggies. Avocado has a lot of great oils good for brain development so I use it as a base for mixing the rice cereal now.

crj 20 yrs ago

hkcc

I like your doctor. My doctor says not to worry, the he was in the 3rd percentile his whole life. But I am a mother, of course I worry!

kkh - thanks for the post.

Baby wakes up at 6.30 am, and goes to bed at 7.00 pm. We then wake him up for the 10pm, but he barely wakes up, but he does eat. I think he would like to sleep through the night, but he really does eat when we wake him as per midwife advice (the good midwife, not evil midwife)

the 3x solids are more than a baby jar - often about 200ml (almost twice a jar of baby food I think). We docus on high calorie foods. every breakfast has yogurt and if he is still hungry after lunch or dinner he gets more yogurt (since it is easy to add more than to defrost more food cubes). Lunch gets an egg yolk added in every other day. Dinner also gets tofu mixed in for the extra protein. He loves yogurt so much I actually had anotehr thread asking if he was eating too much as he eats 500g per week ( a big size tub). He seems to really love his solids, we were even toying with the idea of adding a 4th meal to the day, but haven't decided yet.

Asking

Our baby took to food like he never took to breast feeding. Ironically, I have a friend with a super breast feeding baby who is barely interested in food - so there might be a correlation or just coincidence.

Our baby never ate much, he always ate very fast. There is a thread about 'how long does your baby nurse for' and I was amazed to learn how many babies are 'fast' eaters:

http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/momsdads/threads/87859.asp

There are also some great tips for longer feeds - like laying down and feeding when they are just waking up and still sleepy.

Here is a link to high calorie foods:

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/babyfoodcalories.html

I combined this list with information from Super Baby Foods and http://www.wholesomebabyfood.com/.

Here is a thread on starting solids with lots of advice:

http://hongkong.asiaxpat.com/forums/momsdads/threads/85714.asp

Baby moved quickly from breast milk with a bit of baby rice to thicker food.

So far he loves avocado, mango, papaya, sweet potato, pumpkins and squashes, carrots, yogurt, tofu, egg yolk, oatmeal, millet, barley, brown rice.

He does not like these fods yet bananas, peas or zucchini/courgettes. But we will try them again later.

Hope those threads help.

miso 20 yrs ago

crj - I can really sympathise with your concerns. There is really nothing more draining than constantly worrying about your child's weight.

My 9mth old has tracked your son on the weight charts and it's very disheartening to see this happen particularly when we started out so well.

The only good advice I was ever given was look at the child. If he is happy and healthy then there is probably not much to worry about. Your son sounds good and active. Sounds like he is burning the calories he eats.

I breastfed up to 7 months and since switching to formula have not noticed any improvement.

Here's some possible ideas, hopefully not contradicting your midwife:

Have you introduced dairy/meat to add calories to his meals?

Could you introduce a mid morning/afternoon snack to boost his intake?

My baby is on formula and still takes the 10pm feed. We've only just dropped the middle of the night feed. I find it very difficult to deny my child a feed when she is not putting on weight.

You're doing a great job!

oj 20 yrs ago

Don't mean to steal the thread but i was told by an excellent natrupath that in Oz, Soy may be linked to cancer, so i feed my two little ones rice milk, which they love.

Not scaremongering just wanting ot know if anyone else had heard that, have read it on internet too.

cd 20 yrs ago

Ruths right, the charts are only a guide, if your son is on the 10th centile, then it still means that 10% of boys his age are smaller than him. My 7 year old son has always been way done on the height charts, he's now 116cm (which is the clothes size for 5-6 year olds), but everyone, friends and strangers comment on his physical agility and sporting prowess. Health is more important than size, and your sone sounds like he's doing all the things he should be doing.

crj 20 yrs ago

Ruth - thanks for that, a good warning! I jokingly say to him, this is the only time in your life we are going to be thrilled you are eating lots and gaining weight - so take advantage of it :)

Miso - thank you so much for your post! It is good for me to read about someone a few months ahead with the same problem and that switching to formula did not make a differnce. Of course, it is worrying to learn you are still on the 10pm feed :(

We do have yogurt in the diet. I tried to introduce a snack, and he wasn't keen. He isn't really into finger food yet. We are considering adding a meal first thing in the morning too.

CD - we are actually UNDER the 10%, battling to get back to it. But your point is well taken and good to hear that small does not translate to a poor physical condition.

I really apprecaite all the comments on this thread. They have helped a lot!

fel 20 yrs ago

hi crj,

my elder daughter is always around 50percentile. She doesnt belong to the tall sort.Don stress yourself too much, just continue with the normal breastfeeding and introduce solid to your baby.

Meiguoren 20 yrs ago

Parents tall and thin, check. Baby very active and burning a lot of calories, check. Baby soiling enough diapers, check. Baby seems happy and engaged in in enjoyment of life, check. Baby interested in food and eating, check. Baby passing normal developmental milestones, check. Baby attentive to mom and those around him, check. Medical supervision, professional advice and opinion that all is normal, check. Weight within normal limits, check. Height normal, check. So, Relax! The beautiful thing about breastfeeding is that you don't have to do all that measuring and worrying! Just follow baby's lead. I personally would go even further and wouldn't be trying to force high calorie foods on him. Maybe he's more of a veggie and fruit type of person, might even eat more calories if allowed to follow his natural apetite desires (other than for sugar and unhealthy food!). One thing I do suggest, is make meals a happy family time with socializing, joy, bonding, leisurely and relaxed -- all fun and no stress. Don't let obsession with food and calories become neurotic -- nuff said.

hkchoichoi 20 yrs ago

CRJ -

look at all this great support you got! I think you're doing a great job- mothers worry, are concerned and are constantly re-evaluating what they are doing - it's what makes a mother GREAT.

crj 20 yrs ago

MeiGuoRen - thanks so much! Baby certainly enjoys his food and mealtimes - only gets frustrated if he is in the high chair and the food isn't in his mouth yet!

HKCC - this thread is great, thanks for the input and support.

Mrs Miggins 20 yrs ago

Hi Cri

Firstly, you are doing a great job. I wish I was half the mother you are.

My little guy weighed 3.5 at birth, was 7kg at 6 months and then his weight just halted at 7kg until 8.5 months. I panicked - was my milk bad, was he getting enough food, was there something wrong with him!!!!. He is a bf baby too. My little guy has so much energy it is unbelieveable. At 9 months he could climb up 30 steps. He's now 11.5 months and his weight is still not great. He's 9.4 kg. He won't triple his birthweight. However that's not a problem as the new WHO charts say that a bf baby should reach 2.5 of its birthweight at 12 months. For your and my baby, that's 8.75 kg so we are good.

Here's an average day at my place.

1 hour breastfeed at 6am

2 weetabix or porridge and a fruit puree for breakfast with full fat milk plus a beaker of full fat milk to drink

mid morning snack (breadstick, fruit, biscuit)

lunch - protein e.g. beef casserole followed by desert (rice pudding, mango and yoghurt, fruit)

afternoon snack (see above)

Dinner - one of his made up recipes (Annabel Karmel recipe) followed by desert

Breastfeed for 1/2 hour before bed

lots of sippy cups of water during the day

Now, I don't know about you but if I ate the above I would be a lardo. My little guy basically is on the go from 0600 - 1900 with a sleep 10am - 12pm. He also has about 4 poops a day, he gets this mega metabolism from my other half.

I think you just need to keep what you are doing and he will eventually start putting on weight again. Once he is 9 months you may (with Doc's approval) start to add some full fat milk into things. Everyones baby is different - some are fat and don't do much, some are skinny and are like marathon runners. Some crawl early, some don't crawl and all of a sudden they are walking before everyone else. As a mum there's always something to worry about.

So long as he is reaching milestones and doing the things he is doing then and growing then it is not a serious problem. I could tell you not to worry, but as a mum myself I know that's not possible. Feed him lots of healthy, good quality stuff and he will benefit in the long run. As you can see my little guy eats like a horse and his weight is just creeping up.

Nappypooh 20 yrs ago

Hi,

I just wanted to tell you that I second everything HKChoichoi wrote. Charts are only guideline, and sometime I ask myself if they are not doing more damage than anything else.

I remember the day I came back from the 2nd doctor check-out. I was near crying because he kept questionning me about what I did different on BF on demand as she only gain half what she did on 1st month. I just felt like I must be doing something really wrong and starving her... just didn't know what. Then I got back a week later for something else, and in one week, she has gain well... Never knew what happen as I didn't change anything in my way of doing. Guess at one time she has a full tummy and not the other time ? LOL

Anyway, that long story just to say that since then I have tried not to be overly obsessed with her weight (even if it IS difficult).

Actually, I think I would be more concern about an overweight baby though here people do tend to like big babies (which they rongly equal to healthy babies). Obesity is just such a big issue.

So long as he is active and strong and healthy, I just think you really don't need to worry about trying to stuff him up.

Take care!

my thoughts 20 yrs ago

hi crj--

I just wanted to add my two-cents to all the good advice and support you've been getting. You're doing a great job and you're clearly doing your homework, so I really think you can relax and enjoy mealtimes with your little guy.

My daughter was born at 3.2 kg (~10%), dropped weight immediately and took absolutely forever (a couple of weeks?) to regain her birthweight and grow from there. She still hung out around 5%ile for more than a year while her head measurement stayed at 75th (don't want that one to be slipping)...My doctor kept pushing me to supplement and if she hadn't been eating well and I wasn't so stubborn (and exploding in milk) and didn't have a supportive midwife, I probably would have caved. I was as food and calorie conscious as you are, which I suspect is natural when your child is lagging the charts.

Anyway, mine is now 3 and is probably the most nutrious eater of any of her friends and among the more adventurous. She's still a 10th percentile child, 15th in weight, but I'm 5'2"...so maybe she's growing just as her genes would indicate...

Other than whatever reassurance this might be (and you've gotten a lot of that already), the reason I've chimed in here is that one thing I wish I'd paid more attention to in my preocupation with QUANTITY and CALORIE, is VARIETY, including texture.

I really felt I needed mine to eat, she was just too little to refuse food or eat lightly for a meal. But, it would have been much better for her to have kept on being exposed to loads of different KINDS of foods. Vegetables cooked all manner of yummy ways and combinations, quinoa and lentals as well as rice and potatoes, cauliflower and broccoli minced in with pasta, tomato and cheese, you get the idea. Instead, from a year (when they can eat most anything) I focussed on rotating her favorite foods around just to keep up the quantity. Then she hit 2 and pretty much zipped her mouth shut, which, as you will find, many kids do. If, at that time, her repetoire of "acceptable" foods had been 5000 instead of 10, that wouldn't have been such a worrisome time. It's been a lot of work from there to get to where we are now ("keep it fun, keep it fun")--and now we're actually going through another picky stage, but at least we have far more to work with.

So yes, you need to think of calories, but try not to be boring about it. Food is an adventure of a life-time and most 1-2 year olds can't wait to embark on it.

Wheelymate 20 yrs ago

hi crj,

hkcc is right - don't get carried away by charts, they are only a guideline. my baby is formula fed and at almost 6 months (this sunday), downs a max. of 700ml (usually 600-650ml) of milk per day. the formula tin tells me by 3 months, the bub should be drinking 240ml per feed, 4-5 times a day - PIGS WILL FLY THE DAY THAT HAPPENS! i used to worry about it (see all my previous posts), crying, what not...i was convinced that i was starving my baby and that he would suffer from brain damage from not enough milk (don't ask me why i thought of that).

but you know what, i am so trying not to do that now. he doesn't have a low weight issue (2.75kg at birth 39 weeks, 7.2kg at 4 months) BUT what i can see is that he is such a happy and active baby - he is definitely not starving. since starting on solids, i don't sweat as much about it - i keep telling myself this is just a small part of his life and if he really just wants to drink 60ml of milk per feed, that's up to him. and i don't want to force feed him anymore, because i worry he will completely shut milk out of his diet when he is older.

i don't share the same problem as you BUT what i am going through is just as distressing (a baby that screams if you try to feed him anything more than 60-90ml per feed). i think most mums go through the same anxiety - feeding too much, too little, baby too fat, too skinny... so i just hope you'll chin up cos you always give such great advice on this forum so don't let this get you down. a super active baby who started crawling at 6 months - sounds like a wonderful little thing to me!!

katyjanew 20 yrs ago

Hi crj,

My son is 8mths too. He is on 5 breasfeeds per day, although he's started to lose interest in one so I think he soon will be down to 4. I wanted to let you know that he also drinks between 100 and 150 ml per feed, so don't let the amount that he drinks worry you at all.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things.

If you want to cut down the amount of feeds per day, you can do this gradually by delaying the next feed by 15 minutes or so every couple of days. I know this is not easy, and you have to have all the favourite distractions at hand. Baby will be hungry and eat more at each feed. You will not starve your baby, he'll adapt to the feeding times you work towards. I did this when cutting down to 5 feeds from 6 and it worked really well. Your body will have time to adjust so there is more milk for each feed. I too do a 10pm "dream feed", then he gets up at 6.30 or so. It sounds like your bub likes to "snack" on the boob, as did mine a couple of months ago before I started delaying each feed. It only took me a few days to drop a feed by doing this.

Our routine is roughly

6.30 wake and breastfeed

8.00 breakfast (weetbix/ricepuffs/oatmeal, fruit and yoghurt.

9.00 sleep

10.30-11 breastfeed (now not so interested in

this so may drop soon)

12.00 lunch (vegies/tofu/avocado/ricotta)

12.30 sleep (50 mins to 2 hrs)

3pm breastfeed

5.30 dinner (just about anything, but has protein and vegies, followed by fruit)

7.15 breastfeed/bed

10pm breastfeed

He has about half a cup of food at lunch and dinner.

Sounds like if you could just erase that negative comment from evil midwife you would not have any concerns. Some babies are just petite, and active. If your bub is happy and alert you don't have a problem. Dark eyes probably has more to do with his sleep than the amount he's eaten. I know my son doesn't eat much if he's tired.

Make sure you are eating well and feeling good. If not feeling healthy consider a multivitamin for breastfeeding women if not already taking one. Maybe have a blood test for your iron levels.

Again, for your sanity, try increasing the time between each feed. You really will find that bub eats more at each feed. You'll know by how your breasts feel.

As for bottle feeding- some babies just don't like bottles. I had trouble getting my son to drink properly from a bottle but after trial and error with a few different teats he is now fine. If you want him to take a bottle you could try getting him to have an expressed bottle each day (your hubby could give it) until he's used to it, then keep giving a few bottles a week.

But again, I've just given those suggestions if what you are doing at the moment doesn't suit you. If you are happy with 6 feeds a day, keep on with that. If you don't want to use the bottle more, don't.

I hope that you get your confidence back. From what you've written you have every reason to be proud of your parenting abilities.

crj 20 yrs ago

THANK YOU ALL!!

These replies are really amazing. I need to reply to each one, but it might have to wait until I can absorb all the information.

He is eating more per meal (around 300ml for breakfast and 200ml for lunch and dinner) and I am looking at adjusting the schedule to have a mini-meal or snack as well. Just not quite sure how yet :)

Thank you all again so much, this is just amazingly helpful.

katyjanew 20 yrs ago

Mothers of the world unite to keep the evil midwives at bay!!!

my thoughts 20 yrs ago

crj--you may want to talk with your pediatrian about giving yours a vitamin supplement while he's trailing the charts. Mine was adament about that, so from about 6 months he had her taking Polivisol, a vitamin only (no minerals) liquid. She still takes it.

The other thing I thought I'd mention, not to stress you but it's something you might want to substantiate yourself: In the first year of life a baby's size and weight is apparently more correlated with nutrition than with genes. I only read this about a year ago, so it wasn't something I was factoring in at the time, but it did make me glad she'd been getting the vitamin supplements anyway. I'm a huge reader and I research a lot of stuff that's relevent to us. The source of this I don't remember other than that I remember it was credible, but you may want to do your own looking into the subject. You can't force him to eat, but maybe you do want to look into a vitamin supplement, just for added assurance.

Wheelymate 20 yrs ago

mine doesn't have weight problem but due to low milk intake, he's been on polyvisol since 4 months as recommended by his pd.

crj 20 yrs ago

My Thoughts/ Wheelymate - thanks. I will ask my doctor about vitamins again I asked him once before).

Ness - thanks for your PM

exeter 20 yrs ago

One of my sons was 3rd percentile for weight until 2.5 and now he's 10th percentile for weight at 3. I'm not going to re-hash what everyone else has said, but I will offer a tip to get more calories in a kid...

I went to a pediatric nutritionist in Boston because he was so skinny and had such a lousy appetite (even while being very active though he'd often run out of energy). She suggested adding canola oil to his food. I put it in his formula, in his yogurt, anything that he eats that he wouldn't recognize that it's there and reject.

Worth a try.

crj 20 yrs ago

Really? Canola Oil? Cooking oil? We don't even use that, we use Olive Oil...

We are about to start Flax Seed Oil (lots of benefits).

He eats a storm - 200-300ml per meal. He is very awake and just moves moves moves moves, and poos poos poos.

What else did she suggest?

my thoughts 20 yrs ago

If the point is to add calories, it seems adding flaxseed or walnut oil would do the trick while also adding a helpful oil....

crj 20 yrs ago

Great news!

Midwife came.

Last month he was 7.0 Kilos

Now he is 7.750 Kilos!!

Yeah!!

We are now:

Weight 7.75 Kilos 12% (orange)

Length 72 CM 59.9% (green)

Lenth for Weight still low at 4.7% (orange)

I am so used to seeing the number so low and in the red we are thrilled!

She has given us permission to stop the 10pm feed. (at almost 9 months!)

The thought is the 4 meals a day, the extra breast feeds when I can and probably the teaspoon of flax seed oil have all helped.

12%

You should have heard my husband when I told him we could stop the 10pm feed a huge 'hurrah!' over the phone :)

Of course, we still have to focus on keeping him above the 10%... but at least we know he can gain weight :)

my thoughts 20 yrs ago

Oh cri, such good and welcome news!

Mrs Miggins 20 yrs ago

Well done Cri. See you just have to have a bit of faith.

My little guy has just had a massive growth spurt. Everyone commented on how small he was and then all of a sudden everyones telling me that he has just shot up and filled out over a period of 3 weeks. Now I have to buy even more clothes!!

crj 20 yrs ago

Mrs Miggins - I always look for your posts as we have similar babies but yours is a few months older.

I saw you are leaving HK soon, hope you still visit us here :)

We had our first night of sleep... of course, the door was open and I barely slept being afraid he would cry out with hunger :) He didn't and at 6:27 am he made a 'hey come get me' noise. Yeah!!!!!

Wheelymate 20 yrs ago

well done, crj!!

enjoy your sleep!

@@ 20 yrs ago

Fantastic crj, you've done really well, having this huge pressure to get your babies weight up can't have been easy.

Did you get the night of sleep without the 10pm feed?

crj 20 yrs ago

Yes, last night was our first night without a 10pm feed. Well that is not strictly true, a few months ago we had 3 nights in a row without a 10pm feed, but then the midwife said b/c of his weight we had to keep that feed, so we reintroduced it after those 3 wonderful nights...

Now we have to see how he adjusts...

hkchoichoi 20 yrs ago

So how much flaxseed oil are you giving? Hubby brought some back from HK, and am getting ready to try it mixed in with oatmeal tomorrow.

crj 20 yrs ago

HKCC - Flaxseed Oil. I started off with a perfectly measured teaspoon, but now it is more like a messy overflowing teaspoon. I mix it in with his fruit, yogurt, mixed grain breakfast and he loves it.

When did you start cod liver oil with your daughter? I recall you said you give her a spoonfull a day, not even mixing it with food? Will you used Flax seed oil instead for your new baby?

hkchoichoi 20 yrs ago

I have started flaxseed 1/2 teaspoon since I'm testing for reactions intially. It's been two days and she has it at breakfast also. (my daughter unfortunatley is not a huge yogurt fan - or tofu for that matter. sigh.)

Cod liver oil - a friend told me to start it and I started a bit late - at around 2 years. I wish I had started it earlier actually. Just didn't think of it. My daughter takes it STRAIGHT (and it tastes so GROSS) but she likes it. (she's very unusual in how WELL she takes to so many different flavors.) I'll keep my second on flaxseed oil for the meanwhile (it's actually cheaper and less chance for heavy metal contamination) and since she'll be vegetarian for the first year it fits in well with what she does.

Strange how your little guys doesn't like bananas but loves yogurt. Mine hates yogurt and LOVES banana.

crj 19 yrs ago

UPDATE

Baby is almost 1 year old... and we had a weighing today on our 'regular' scale...

Weight for Age - 24%

Weight for Length 12.4%

Baby also is over 2.5 x his birth weight, which is the standard for breast fed babies (3x is for formula) - yeah!!

We are sooo happy!!

This is what worked for us:

Increased breast feeds initially.

Focused on high calorie foods.

Regulary weighings and less worrying!

Thanks again for all the support on this thread - you all helped sooo much!!

mummybee1 19 yrs ago

crj, just saw this thread and by the looks of it, you have solved your "problem" of poor weight gain with your boy and you sound more cheerful. I didn't read all posts (they are all so detailed how amazing!) but would like to tell you my experience. Bub was born >90th percentile (like all mums I took that as MY big achievement) but at 6 mths with introduction of solids, her weight dived downwards to ~10%. At 1 year, she remained 10% percentile despite all that I did. When her aussie paed. also voiced his concerns, that REALLY got me all stressed and worried. Despite everyone telling me she looked healthy and happy, I still worry.

In December I finally employed a domestic helper and I couldn't believe that in her short 1 month with us, my daughter put on a whooping 1.5kg!!!!!!!! Clearly she is doing something right (and I, wrong). She is afterall 49 yrs old and have taken care of 8 children before she comes to us.

These are the things she said made my daughter eat more and you may want to try them too. The pt is to consider HOW you are feeding not WHAT you are feeding:

(1) breakfast of pasta (boiled with chicken breast stock to make it yummier - why didn't I think of this?) and fruit: let her play with some pasta and feed herself to distract her to take more and encourage longer sitting on high chair; takes 30mins to 45 mins of funplay+eating

(2) milk then snack (rice cracker 'cos of her allergies) an hr later in playground, and lots of water

(3) lunch of chicken congee/veg/fruit - give boring congee/veg first. When bub tires of bland taste, mix in fruit puree and bub takes one more bowl of congee/fruit combo. Lunch takes 45 mins while watching Sesame Street/baby Einstein DVDs to encourage longer sitting

(3) milk feed before nap

(4) snack of rice cracker and fruit with lots of water

(5) Dinner is same as lunch except no fruit is given (don't want her to poo at night) replaced with "filling" pumpkin (bub's absolute favourite; you can vary with other hard-to-digest carb like potatos). Trick is to fill bub up for the night, with his favourite foods. Dinner takes 45mins-1 hour with lots of toys on her high chair to encourage a long sitting.

(6) two "cluster feed" milk feeds before bed, first given after her bath then the second just before bed (spaced 1.5hrs apart).

(7) Congee alternate b/w chicken breast and drumstick (tastier and fattier)

(8) Australian paed allergist gave her this milk-free vegetable spread called "nuttelex" to bulk her up and stop her from fall below 10% percentile (don't use milk-free ones unless of allergies): we give a smidget 1-2/wk mixed in with pasta breakfast. The spread is rich in omega-3 and omega 6 good for her eczema skin too (like flaxseed oil?).

Looking at my helper feeds my daughter, I am convinced I wasn't feeding her long enough and patiently enough. She takes 2 coffee mugs of congee for lunch/dinner which is much much more than what I used to manage. I also used to focus on high calorie foods but I worry I might be merely encouraging fat not muscle growth.

At 16 months, my daughter is:

Weight: from 10% to 50%

Length: from 50% to 75% (as weight increases so did height)

Head Circumference: consistently 95% (yep, she has a huge cartoon-sized head)

Happy New Year!!!

crj 19 yrs ago

Mummybee

Another success story!

That is really incredible, and I think that the idea of being more patient and taking longer for the meals is important. I have noticed that lately too. For a few months he gulped down his food, but at 11/12 months he started to eat slower.

He still does not like to feed himself, but I figure it will come one day.

Have you tried higher calorie food like avocados? We are convinced they are part of our success. Loaded with calories, vitamins and the good oils.

mummybee1 19 yrs ago

I would dearly love to, crj, but my daughter is allergic to avocados (amongst a great list of foods). It is really really really disheartening to realise my child is a "special" child. We do still give her 1/2 teasp of organic avocado once a week, as you are right they are so healthy, and deal with the mildish rash. We also discovered this week she is allergic to salmon, another healthy food. Have you given salmon to your son? packed with gd oils..

crj 19 yrs ago

Wow mummybee, that has to be very very hard for you all. Considering that as well it is AMAZING you got her to gain so much weight!

We haven't done fish yet - only a small amount of chicken and turkey so far.

But he gets a spoon full of Flax Seed Oil every day mixed in with his breakfast, as well as a spoon full of Brewers Yeast with breakfast too. It gets well mixed in with the fruit/yogurt/oatmeal and grain mix so I don't think he notices.

Wheelymate 19 yrs ago

Hi Crj,

We are now almost 10 months and baby is about 8.5kg at the most (few weeks back was 8.3kg according to check-up).

Considering that he was a puny 2.75kg at birth, it the weight gain is good. But when I compare him to his other baby pals of the same age, the other babies are about 1kg heavy usually.

This worries me because poor milk drinking aside, he eats 3 proper solid meals per day and he has a great appetite. I also like to think he is having a well-balanced meal, the only thing is I do meat during lunch, not dinner.

Do you find that introducing more meat protein to your baby's diet helped with the weight gain? We don't do meat at dinner because he eats at 5pm, when we are usually outdoors so I don't want to cart meat dishes even if in the cooler bag. So we do veggie stews and I try to give veggie protein like lentils and tofu.

We haven't tried avocados in a long long time because he got pretty constipated when we tried the first time and it's pretty hard to get nice ones in Singapore.

He is super active and everyone says as long as he is healthy, it's ok. But he's like a runt next to all his other kiddy friends! :P

crj 19 yrs ago

Hi Wheelymate

You sound like everything is going well. All babies do develop differently... our baby's playmate is a few days apart in age and over 7 lbs heavier!

We have been doing Tofu daily for a while and lentils sometimes, but only introduced meat at 11 months. He gets egg yolk M-W-F. He gets a small jar of organic meat baby food (like Healthy Times Grandmas Turkey Meal or Earth Best Chicken Stew, etc...) mixed in with his homemade veggies on Tuesdays and Thursdays for lunch. And if there is a roast chicken or turkey, he will have some small pieces and he likes that a lot. And of course he gets his huge amounts of yogurt every day.

We have not introduced red meat or fish yet and we don't plan to have him on a heavy meat diet as we are not in our household (I am vegetarian but eat fish and seafood and eggs and hubby eats meat but not much at home)

The calorie counting helped us the most in the beginning, and being sure everything in his mouth counted.

crj 19 yrs ago

Avocado and Yogurt (full fat) is a great 'dessert/pudding'. Calories, nutrients and good taste all rolled into one.

Keep focusing on high calorie foods:

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/babyfoodcalories.html

It really made a difference for us. Baby will only eat so much, so we tried to make every mouthful count.

Good luck!

Wheelymate 19 yrs ago

STB,

re your friend's suggestions, i do that sometimes too. instead of oatmeal brekkie, i sometimes give toast with unsalted butter or cream cheese. and because he's dropped his afternoon milk, if we are not going out after his pm nap, he sits on his high chair and i feed him assorted stuff including strips of cheese.

he gets fruit after his brekkie and lunch, sometimes i add yoghurt as he's not too keen on the natural stuff.

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