Posted by
RCP
20 yrs ago
Hey everyone, just researching HK and how bad the AQ has gotten over the past decade. I was entertaining employment there. Is it bad enough to not come out with my family.... Just wondering if there is any end in sight, if China and HK are going to take steps to fix the issue... thanks.
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Ed
20 yrs ago
I spend most of my time in Bangkok due to the air pollution problems in HK - when I return generally within 24 hours I am back to the same old throat clearing every 10 seconds because of the pollution...
I didnt see much in the policy address that will alleviate this crisis anytime soon.
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RCP
20 yrs ago
Thanks for the replies gents. I have been looking at HK's EPD(environmental Protection Department) website and it looks as if the air quality has been roughly the same for the past six years or so, getting only slightly worse during that period. I would imagine the hotspots would be around Central if I had to quess from my research. Looks like maybe Lantau might be better? I have a buddy of mine living in DBay and he loves it out there. Anyway, thanks again for the responses.
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Since the end of September it has been disgusting - no other word for it - poor visibility and a heaviness in the air I I would say today has been the worst day of them all for some reason. Throughout the summer it was really good - clear blue skies even though I live in central. Also if you travel a bit it doesn't seem so bad - I'm going stir crazy not having left since July so I've booked a weekend away next week - another Asian city - probably with its own issues but at least it is a w/e away for a change of pace and atmosphere.
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The pollution here in HK is hideous. I work on HK Island and by the time I walk to work I have sore throat. My flash going off all the time on the camera says it all. But, probably no worse than Bangkok really.
I wouldn't have my children living in this area though. We are living in the NT, where at least the breeze blows some of it away.
Sundays seem better in HK with less pollution and you can sort of see some blue in the sky!
Surely they could install huge suctioning system, like the dredging in the harbour to suck it all in and purify that smog up there!
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esque
20 yrs ago
why hong kong? If there's somewhere else that would give you what you want from your OS experience, without the pollution, consider going there instead.
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Don't come out unless you have to. Pollution isn't your only problem re family. Food quality, education quality, lack of easily accessable sporting facilities ( mucking about in commercial gyms is not the same thing). It is a very unkind place for children and the elderly. I couldn't ask someone to join me here because HK has nothing to offer her little girl. When I am done here I will be happy to see the back of it.
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NOT to move to HK! Would you smoke 2 packs of cigarettes per day? You'll be breathing the equivalent in air pollution if you move to HK. And as Foxtrotalpha said, that isn't nearly the only problem with Hong Kong. Restaurant hygiene is terrible - you can expect to suffer from food-poisoning here on a regular basis. There is a culture of dishonesty and cheating, which you will be the victim of, whether you realize it or not. People are not so friendly either (understatement). Never mind friendly - far too many are downright rude. There is a palpable air of unhappiness. I just wish I could've seen Hong Kong back in the 1960's through 80's. The Golden Age of HK is truly over.
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2006
19 yrs ago
Tom, in what you term the "Golden Age of HK" in the 1960s, you would have seen dreadful poverty everywhere outside Central. Even permanent housing did not exist for 70% of the population. Do you honestly think restaurant hygiene was better then?
Ask elderly locals whether they would rather live in aircon highrises with a bit of air pollution or in the shanty homes with no sanitation they had in the 1960s, and I think they would be near-unanimous in their response. You can get some idea how HK was then by looking at the sqatter village below Chi Fu... but imagine it without potable water, toilets, aircon or refuse disposal. That was pretty much the whole territory in the 1960s.
That is not to downplay air pollution; I am moving my family out of HK next month because of it. But don't imagine there was ever a golden age in HK when everyone lived a Rousseauesque idyll and locals smiled at you and washed their hands with soap after they peed and used freshly ironed white handkerchiefs and always covered their mouths when they coughed. That simply never existed in HK. Rose tinted specs...
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2006 - Thanks for pointing out my rose colored glasses - I've taken them off and crushed them underfoot. Seriously, thanks for the perspective.
Where will you be moving to?
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I consider Discovery bay aka (DB) to be the best place to live in Hong Kong though it's not on Hong Kong Island, the reason for this is simply the x factor of Common Courtesy prevails here in DB. Not so in other parts of Hong Kong sorry to say. If I am wrong on the subject matter please inform. Be well and Great air is available to all on request. I sell Air units for the Home.
JV
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I can see why DB would suit some people, for many of the reasons listed above. However, do not kid yourself about the air quality, it is about the worst in HK (after Tung Chung). The car pollution is not the main reason for poor HK, it is the crap blown in from China and DB/Tung Chung are first in the line of fire most of the year.
I know this because we looked at moving there and had the air quality analysed bu IQ Air. Even on the initial phone conversation, he said that the average difference between Tai Tam/Stanley and DB was 40% (with the DB quality being the worst). He came to our place and the place that we proposed renting and the machine readings backed him up within 1% in all rooms tested. So, we gave up the extra space etc. and stayed put (must confess there were other reasons too). He did say that the difference is not as dramatic in summer. So, yes, more square feet for your money, more expats, more green grass etc, but if you think ther air is better, you're very wrong.
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cd
19 yrs ago
To foxtrotalpha,
I disagree, the food in HK is fine, not as wide a choice as in the UK, but there are very few things that you can't actually get. For those of us you can not afford private schools in our 'home countries' the education here is much better than our kids would be getting back home. Practically every child I know plays at least 2 sports on a weekly basis, a lot do even more. HK is a great place for teenagers, lots to do, and the safety aspect is a gods send. We live in Clearwater Bay where the air always seem cleaner, all the roads are tree lined etc, but can be in Central in 30 mins.
As food the food poisoning, I've lived here over 9 years and have never been affected, neither have my family.
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tggb
19 yrs ago
Hong Kong is a very attractive place to live for expats. That's why so many expats live here. The negative statements above are too sweeping. Each place has pros and cons, and yes one of the cons of HK is the air quality. Other than that, most expats eventually leave HK with fond memories.
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hmm
19 yrs ago
Yep. Apparently DB air is no better... in fact as one poster said it is perhaps worse -- I understood due to its proximity to the airport... jet fuel and all that. Obviously when compared to roadside Central it's not as bad, but say compared to Stanley, Shek O, Tai Po or the Peak?
Choose it by all means for the greenery, lifestyle and community feel... but air quality? I don't think so.
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The education here is good, safety is excellent and your children will have a lot more freedom here than most other countries as a result, sporting opportunities and the availibility of private member clubs for families is a major asset. The range of restuarants is second to none, so generally a great place to live - HOWEVER THE POLLUTION is dire, and do not listen to anyone who tries to underestimate the extent of the pollution here - it is BAD and has got worse over the years and it is not getting any better. We do not know what the long term effects will be on our health and it maybe said that the locals live to a ripe old age, however they have not experienced the levels of pollution throughout their lives as we have had in the last 4 - 5 yrs. There may be a few areas in HK that the air quality is less polluted, but not so that it will make any difference to your health, every where here is polluted and those who think that the air is better in DB or Clearwater Bay are kidding themselves. So be warned the pollution here is HORRID.
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Air pollution in Bangkok is much worse than Hong Kong (although HK is also bead)
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Ed
19 yrs ago
Not so. Bangkok has the best air quality of any major asian city after singapore ... there was a chart that appeared with this article in the IHT recently ... SG was best at 30... BKK 41... HK 55... Shanghai 85 and BJ 155 (if memory serves me).
On the positive side if BKK can clean up its act so can HK...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/15/news/pollute.php
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DB air is not just 40% worse than the south of HK Island, it is also 20% worse than mid-levels, so again....move there for whatever reasons you want, but not for improved AQ. I must agree with the others though, knowing that the air that my family inhales is 40% 'better' than in DB is of little comfort, it is still very bad by international standards.
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Can I ask is there a comparison chart of cities air pollution levels? I am familiar with Sydney, Tokyo and Manila. Would be curious to see where HK sits.
Regarding the Chinese government cleaning up – unless all expats refuse to work in HK due to pollution and it ceases to then be attractive as a gateway to China the Chinese government I expect will do nothing. Why should they? They don’t bear the burden of sick foreigners. Life is cheap. However I expect, just like the USA, UK, Japan and other countries that once they reach a certain level of affluence they will clean up there act. China is still at the “hell for leather industrialize or die” stage so there won’t be any changes any time soon. That’s my 2c..
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Pine - "HK alone cannot solve the problem" you are right there, however HK can help and it is not doing that at the moment our Government needs to take a stand and just get on with it, how easy would it be to pass a law to stop ideling engines? HK people will not put up with the pollution for too much longer and the HK Govt making air pollution in HK very low on their list of priorities. Take a look at the Clear the Air web page it has some very interesting facts about pollution in HK eg: 50 per cent of the air pollution you breathe everyday comes from the traffic right in front of you and mostly from diesel trucks and buses. www.cleartheair.org.hk
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cd
19 yrs ago
To daddylonglegs,
schools are better here, you only have to look at the exam results to come to that conclusion. Pass rates in UK comprehensives average 52 - 53% for GCSE's, here they average 92-93%, some even higher, and of those a much higher percentage are A-C grades. Agree sport isn't as good, but its there if you look for it, there is a thriving mini and youth rugby scene here, football is more widely available than it was. Youth hockey is also very well established. As for swimming pools, there are lots with swimming leagues and competitions held throughout the year, plus their is kids tennis, 10 pin bowling, judo, golf and sailing available, and I'm sure many others.
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RCP - are you still considering a move to HK or are the above views too off putting??
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daddylonglegs, you need to take off your dark glasses. Our school has hockey pitches, it has football and rugby pitches it has it's own swimming pool. The sport opportunities are abundant and certainly you would not get the same in the UK with out having to travel some distance and even at some public/private schools in the uk the facilities are not as good as the schools here. The ESF schools are far better than an ordinary comprehensive school in the UK, it is far better than the private fee paying schools my children were at in the UK. In comparison they have great resources excellent facilities and students that want to learn and have excellent exam results and are in line and in some areas better than some of the top public schools. Endless sports facilities are offered free after school and none of them are paid for - in fact there are so many on offer that one child could not do all of them in one week. You are misinformed daddylonglegs.
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cd
19 yrs ago
To daddylonglegs, the reason I'm comparing comprehensives to 'semi private' is because for ourselves (and many of our friends) there is no way on earth we could afford private school at home, so for us the quality of school is much, much better than they would be getting in the UK. One of the reasons we stay here. a lot of our friends in the UK think its unneccessary for my daughter to be applying for uni for next year, very few of them in the UK do, whereas here nearly all the students go on to further education. My kids schools also has hockey pitch, football pitch, basketball and netball pitches and a swimming pool.
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To daddylong legs - very sweeping incorrect statements. When were you last in a British comprehensive school? From recent experience one can not compare, ESF is totally different Explain your statement "What level of Chinese are the students able to speak"? Do you mean Mandarin? If this was an important requirement for your child would CIS have been a better choice? Mandarin is not as important to other parents. In regards to the fees you have mentioned I would assume you are looking at a Primary School? Some ESF Primary Schools do offer swimming lessons as part of the curriculum, some do not, some primary private schools in the UK do not have swimming pools. Some ESF primary schools do have or have access to large sports fields and they are used during school for PE. You need to look at all the schools as they all offer something different. Many parents would look at the needs of their children then choose the school - its all there maybe not all at the one school but if swimming and sporting facilities is your thing in an ESF primary it is on offer.
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To daddylonglegs, I have not heard of EMI local schools are these for Expat Children or Native English speakers? What is the fee level? As a comparison for A Levels ESF.
A passes in A Levels for ESF - 43%
A passes in A Levels in UK - 24%
One child obtained six grade A's
Not bad! We are in no rush to get back to an education in the UK.
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