(Warning: This isn't a thread for those who share an unshakable bond with their mother, so feel free to look away because I'm about to be very mean!)
My mother (biological - unfortunately) is such a witch that when she dies someday, I honestly believe some kind of voodoo ritual needs to be performed. For most of my life she was emotionally-abusive and very guilt-tripping. Even now that I'm an adult, everthing I say/do is wrong and nothing I do is ever good enough. If there's any truth to what she thinks of me, I pretty much suck at life and am a walking mistake.
I used to let her get to me a lot, which resulted in lots of heartache and buckets full of tears. But now, at 25 years old, I'm starting to think that *maybe* she's wrong about me, that I'm not such a disaster after all. So now, for the sake of my happiness, I've decided that whenever she's mean to me (which happens a LOT), I just ignore her and emotionally detach myself so that she won't upset me. The idea is to reject this negative energy from her so that I can have a normal life, which I should have total control of. This is the conclusion I came to after realizing that I'm getting a *little* too old to be saying stuff like "My mother is the reason I have low self-esteem/bad health/poor work performance/etc."
That being said, I'm not entirely sure if ignoring her is really the answer. I'm horrible at confrontation, but should I grow some balls and do it anyway? Would that resolve anything? Is resolution necessary just because she's (very unfortunately) my mother? Or should I just build a bridge and get over myself because it's been 25 years already?
Thanks for any advice :)
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OK, here's a subject I have my masters in (university of life unfortunately!). Do you have children yourself? Only asking, because if you do, it all suddenly becomes so much clearer and you prevent any of her 'mistakes' repeating themselves. How was her relationship with her mother? Again, important because during confrontation she may well bring that up and argue that she'd never had a role model. I have actually tried to confront my mother several times but she either "loses" the e-mails or bursts into tears and "needs her anti-depressants". Gosh, don't I sound like a cynical cow, but after many tortuous years, I have a perfect relationship with her. We talk weekly on the phone, discuss absolutely nothing but weather, shopping and what's for tea and visit once every 2 years. This way she gets to pretend everythings wonderful and I can feel guilt free after my 'duty trips'!!!! Do I miss having a mother? I still have one, just not quite how sitcoms would have you believe they behave, and actually, after discussions with girlfriends, I am certainly not alone in this situation. Hon, it's really tricky to cut that chord,but it does save you a hell of a lot of emotional heartache!
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But, although the problem lies between them, the buck could stop here. As Bania says, there are many books out there and you could relate to some and hate others. The easier solution ( provided there is substantial distance between you) is to simplify the whole relationship, withdraw slowly and keep it at arms length. Under NO circumstances discuss major problems relationship/financial or other with her...as far as she's concerned, life is now one big picnic with you. Use your girlfriends or this thread....that's what we're here for!!!
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Hi guys,
I'm very pleasantly overwhelmed by all your helpful advice and support...ta very much.
No I don't have any children (yet), which is probably why I struggle to understand why my mother is the way she is. Hopefully someday when I have my own kids things will be clear, we'll have to see.
I'm also surprised that many of you are suggesting that my mother's upbringing may have something to do with her behavior - I never thought of it that way. She never told me a whole lot about her relationship with my grandmother, but my guess is that it's not a very good one because growing up, my mother always used to say to me "I only married your loser father out of spite - I knew your grandmother hated him."
(I still feel sorry for my Dad to this day - he's ALWAYS in the room when she says that.)
I also agree with you guys in that it's probably best for me to maintain a "superficial" relationship with her and contact each other only when we have to, so that I can minimize all the drama we have. She's VERY much a drama queen and loves to blow everything out of proportion. I personally can't stand it but it's what she loves to do.
I think the truly depressing thing, at the end of the day, is that my mother IS capable of being nice - she just chooses NOT to for God knows why (this is mostly my own fault because I CHOSE to put up with it all these years). I know this because she's always, always nice to my older sister and treats her like a princess. I'm honestly okay with the favoritism, but I still deserve respect from her not just because I'm her daughter, but because I'm human with feelings. You know what I mean?
PS. Thanks for letting me know that Dr. Phil has some insight on mother-daughter relationships - I'll definitely look into it. Hopefully I won't get his classic "You're an idiot!" line in the book :)
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Hey, your Mum has to share that drama crown with mine!!! Seriously though, my mother strongly denies any wrongdoing and has erased our whole childhood (luckily there were 3 of us + a father who later came to his senses and left, as witnesses), reminiscing now about some bizarre Enid Blyton upbringing (Mommy Dearest was closer!)
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I absolutely agree. You really need to get on with youre life. My older (first born)sister had a very similar relationship to yours with our mother and went for psycho counselling for a few year to deal with these issues....which honestly, she does still have. The counselling related these issues to my mothers own very traumatic childhood. The difference in their relationship now, post therapy is really that now its quite 'pleasant' between them. Its quite superficial where they all act nice and fine, then they both call me up to bitch about the other. My sister had confronted my mother about her childhood,and my mother honestly, denies that it was that terrible and implies that my sister had exaggerated this, that and the other. Just wondererd BFC, you dont need to publically answer the question, but do you have siblings? if so, is their relationship the same with youre mother? Its just that I know my siblings each have a different type of relationship with our mother.
Good luck, please dont blame yourself and as the above posts suggest, try and seek out some good reading.
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Clueless, are you my sister? Damn, you caught me out!!!
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Goodness....so many mad mothers.
You know, my mother didnt come and see my second child for the first 8 months of his life, until I flew to see her in the UK, despite me sending her an air ticket!!!, yet she managed to go to, oh lets see, India, Spain and Thailand....honestly though you really have to learn that it is really their loss. I still love my mother, but realise just that we are so different....i really wanted the brady bunch mum growing up, not the selfish, self centred one... but it didnt happen. I keep a happy face with her for the sake of my father. Move on, millions like us, life is too short. If you try and over analyse this, like my sister, the biological one, not marieantionnete, you may end up extremely bitter, especially when you have children.
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Once went to counselling but after 5 sessions they told me that my mother really should be in the hot seat, that I was totally normal and they would have had a field day with her! As clueless says, don't over analyse, just tell yourself that the buck stops here and it'll actually make you a much stronger person. On warped days, I'm quite happy I had that upbringing as there's not a lot I can't deal with now...nothing seems too big deal anymore!
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Totty
20 yrs ago
I, very guilitly, see my Mum as my best friend and reading these stories about other people's Mums breaks my heart, wish you could have a shre of my Mum!
Anyhow, it sounds like resentment. She probably feels like she gave the best years of her life to you BareFootChrissy and that now she's jealous (this is quite commen apparently) of the beautiful and strong woman you have become.
I woulds tell her, sit her down, tell her not to interrupt as what you have to say is important and see what happens.
Oh and by the way, me and my Mum don't always see eye to eye, we huff and puff for a few hours and then everythings back to normal.
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How would you feel if you mother keeps telling you that she regrets having children (i.e., you)? I've been told by my mother how regretful she was (and still is) since primary school. When I asked her to stop, she refused and told me that she was simply telling me the truth. Since we are mother and daughter, we should not hide anything from each other and there is absolutely no need to "decorate our words" (in her own words)...But shouldn't we try even harder not to hurt our loved ones?
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I guess it's natural to think that even under a turbulent surface there must be something good in a mother/daughter relationship.
But through the experience of a friend of mine i've learnt it isn't always the case. She has just reluctantly lodged criminal and civil charges against her own (natural) mother.
The reason? Well, her mother and father first went off to the city leaving her to look after 5 younger brothers and sisters when she was just 12 years old. Now she's twenty six and has been almost the sole breadwinner for her whole family, now including her mother and father, who came back home to roost a few years ago when they realised it would be easier for them.
Then when my friend was more than 7 months pregnant, her mother headed off to the city (Manila) again, faked documents to register my friend's small house there in her name, then fraudulently sold the house to an unsuspecting family for about half it's true value, just to unload it quickly and get her hands on the cash.
My friend has now laid charges against her mother to get the house back so that she can sell it, and she will use most of the money she gets to help raise four of the same 5 brothers and sisters she was left to look after 14 years ago, yes, her mother's children.
Her mother truly does deserve a special place in hell...or at least a few years in a prison cell to reflect on what she has done to her own daughter
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So happy to have found these postings. Great to know that I am not the only one with a selfish self centred mother.
I am pertrifed that i will turn into my mother though. everytime i say or do something selfish i panic that this is happening.
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Do you live with your mother? If yes, what is stopping you from moving out? Stop making excuses and blaming her, if you choose to live there.
May be move out and have a better relationship with her, or is she an excuse for you to blame for everything that goes wrong in your life?
Or are you scared of going into unchartered territory by yourself and its better the devil you know.
YOur mom is a different generation. She doesn't have oprah or Dr. Phil to explain things so she won't understand.
She may be toxic but thats because she sees all her life as bitter and wasted. She won't be around for long. Maybe you should take action to DETOX her; take her on holiday, pay for her to join clubs and classes to feel better. Perhaps she is surrounded by toxic friends who poison her. Explain to her that her life so far has been hell, but she has to the choice to embrace all the wonderful experiences you are now going to give her, or she can choose to lead a life of misery.
We can't all blame mothers for things that go wrong. They have a different mindset, and different generation.
Instead of complaining, what action are you taking? When did you last invite her and her friend to a slap up meal, take her shopping ?
Stop complaining about selfish self centered mother.
What have you done for her lately?
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"...or are you yourself a toxic mother"
Hey that was my very same thought when I read that post! jag123 sounds very bitter and blaming.
>jag123,
Are you suggesting that because a mother didn't have Oprah or Dr.Phil to TELL her what to do, she was/is justified in taking out her anger and nastiness on her children? That she was/is incapable of understanding or figuring out for herself that what she is doing is destructive to her child(ren) and WRONG? That emotional (or other) violence against her kid was somehow acceptable in the past (or even the present), because of "generational" and "mindset" differences?
I don't think violence by an adult against a child was EVER acceptable. What happened to LOVE?
You seem to be making different standards: the mother is justified because her life was/is hell, but the daughter should stop complaining and pretty much act like she herself is the guilty one. Not only should the daughter pander to her mothers every whim, while overlooking her spiteful behaviour, but she should do it with a smile on her face. Is that your argument?
I hope for your sake that your post was a result of a lack of insight, rather than bitterness of being a toxic mother yourself. If its the latter case, then its up to YOU to put things right with your daughter, not the other way around.
AussieFlower.
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According to my mother, generation does give you certain privileges. My aunt (mother's elder sister) did something to me that was very hurtful. My mother's reaction was, "She's your aunt and your 'senior (generation)' so you HAVE to forgive her no matter what she has done to you!" Of course, I never agree with her!
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I am half Chinese and half Japanese by the way
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>purely,
You're so right! The demand that "you HAVE to forgive her no matter what she has done to you" is just a pathetic excuse for refusing to take responsibility for her bad behaviour towards you.
It's an abuse of power and authority, and against a defenseless child, downright evil.
Good for you for standing up for yourself!
AussieFlower.
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All I am saying is that if she chooses to live with the mother, then yes, it will be a toxic relationship. So she should move out.
Second, has she made the effort to try to make her mother's life better. If no, then give it a try. If yes, and the mother is still as toxic, then nothing can be changed, and it would be best that she spends the energy on her own life, mental and physical well being.
I don't think you all need to turn the finger on if I am a toxic mother.
Just as if you had a friend who is "toxic" on drugs or alcohol, you would try to help them to detox. So why can't you do it for her mother. If you have tried, then that you have done your duty as a daughter.
I don't believe that you can forgive a mother, a father, a relative etc because you have to. If they have mentally and physically abused you, then the harm is irreparable.
However, the poster is 25 years old, and I presume, earning her own living. All I am saying is if you don't live with your mother, then you are in control of the situation and you can put a stop to the toxicity, but if you choose to live with her, then you can choose to try and help, and if it doesn't work, then get out and leave.
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I wondered times and times again why my mother is like that.Till now i am still wondering.
What wrong have i done to desereved a mother like her?I didnt choose her too as it was not within my ability to choose.I am a mother of a 11 months baby myself.So i knows how's a mother
feels.From my memory,as soon as i know what is happening around like from 5 years old.........
She never really cuddle me and tell me she love me.What she give me was tones of emotional abuse
and physical abuse.Did i really did something so bad that she have to punished me like that??
I can still remember she use a clothes hanger to hit me.It was really painful.She was afraid my father would see the bruise.So she choose to hit
my back so my father would not see it as it covered by shirt.
She was not the first one to buy my first bra and taught me about womens monthly periods.
Well,talk about toxic mother...,i think she entitle to it.
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>mytears,
It sounds like you had a miserable time with a real toxic mother who abused you emotionally and physically. What could a 5 years old child do to deserve such awful treatment? Of course the answer is NOTHING! But you still have to bear the scars for the rest of your life, even though you were innocent. As much as your mother hurt you, I hope you can turn around and give your baby all the love and caring in the world (even in those moments you get angry and frustrated). Best wishes to you.
AussieFlower.
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i know what it is like to have a toxic mother. Thank God we don't live in the same country and maybe that's why we have a relatively alright relationship. It is hard to have a toxic mother and the way that I deal with it is to walk away when she makes me feel sh*tty and then when things are better, I come back again.
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kalia
20 yrs ago
The New Age take on this is that we all choose our own parents. Alot of us are probably thinking, myself included, why did i pick my own parents? The belief is that we are old souls who have lived many lives and we have chosen them because we need to teach them lessons or they have been chosen to teach us lessons for mistakes in our past lives. Not sure i agree whole heartedly with this but thats the spiritual take.
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Sorry, not going to take the 'we choose our own parents' take on this. Gee....that's way too much for me. I never asked to be born, neither did I ask to be beaten up like a dog...sorry, it's worse than a dog because she loves her dogs heaps. And when she realised finally that she's losing me and I was on the way out of her life (just before I left for undergrad in Australia), she became much nicer but it was still sh*tty at times. Mum has manic depression as well and she would use suicides to blackmail me into seeing her or bringing her out for meals. But I wouldn't give in. Well, she has her ups and downs. Downs were for more than 3 years, just after I got married. And thank God for a nice and supportive husband, we just walked away and patiently waited for her downs and madness to go away. About 2 or 3 months ago, she has somewhat realised that the stunts that she were pulling off were not working on me so she's very much back to norm now. Phone calls are better and I see her whenever I'm home. So there you go...I never asked to be born to be treated worse than a dog. But I've learnt to work things up and I've grown stronger and much more resilient in life that whatever sh*t that's thrown in my face, I'm fine with it.
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You know Tangerine, that's all very well and nice asking someone to be more understanding of mental illness, but when you're the product of such a person, especially a child at that, the scars are pretty much permanent. Until you've been in the position of trying to pull your mother back from an open ledge 20 floors up, or removing a knife that she's drawing across her wrist and you're only a child yourself...you have no idea. I understand that it is the illness itself, but it's the mother who's physically hitting you and separating the 2 can be nigh on impossible. Kudos to all those who can, but the same to all those who have to walk away...certainly not a lesser, nor easier option!
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I also disagree that a bipolar person cannot help the way she is. There are medications available which do a good job of helping with symptoms, if the person will take them. Anyway, "facts is facts." If your mother is toxic, you must take steps to protect yourself and only reach out when and if you are able to do that without harming yourself or your family.
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It's sooooo interesting reading this thread. Obviously people from various backgrounds unfortunately share mothers with similar traits. I spent a lot of time in Australia but I was brought up in a working class and conversative family where girls are worth nothing. Boys are the decision makers in the family and I have 2 older brothers. To cut the long story short, where I grew up was a dodgy part in town and my building was a dump (i.e. extremely dirty and unsafe). One time a girl of my age who lived nearby was sexually assaulted and you can imagine my 2 sisters & I were horrified. So I begged my mother to move to another building with better security. Her response was "we're not moving. If it happens, so be it". As I became an adult, I have come to terms with the fact that my mother is not like other mums - she has a mental problem. She has done and said enough things over & over to hurt us and trash our dignity. Altho I am still talking to her, I cannot call it a proper "mother/ daughter" relationship. I have kept all communication to a bare minimum as I do not want her negative mind to pollute me. I want to live and breath like a normal person, not a bitter and negative cow everybody wants to avoid. My advice is, if you have a similar wicked mother, avoid her. Try to love your friends and siblings and let them love you. Life's too short to be stuck around people who give nothing but poison in return. It's sad to have a mother like that, but sadly that's life. Accept it as an unfortunate fact and move on. Your life is what YOU make it, and those around you deserve more. I refuse to let her control me & the rest of my life. In an accounting term, my mother has already been "written off"!
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Aussierules,
Good for you! I know what you mean. It's almost the same with my mum. I'm cordial with her but I'll not have her kill my self-esteem or control my life. I have a strong belief that this is my life and i'll make it out the way I want it to be and not be controlled by anyone, not my mother or anyone.
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Do not get me wrong. I am on the side of the victims here. But by reading the posting it occurred to me that, there could be another side to this. That is, most of you victims may have put very heavy burdens and pressures on the parents and some mothers may also have been had to tolerate unloved, unwanted marriages or partners and not to mention the responsibility of having to raise children. Children change our lives and while some of us treasure such new comers they are a big big financial and social problem some parents. Not to mention unwanted children.
The point here is to be more tolerant of the parents and try to move on. I am so glad that you all have fared well to be able to lead normal lives with all the bad surroundings and experiences. The lessons for us (and our friends or even readers) are: be aware of unwanted pregnancies, not to rush in to have children and finally do not pass on the same feelings.
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